the Listening Room

Thanks again to everyone. It's very helpful to understand the thoughts on the room from those that have not used an acoustical engineering service. Dovetail in particular--that is the room I like designing. There is so much more to the room than JUST the acoustics. The acoustics should disappear and blend with the surroundings so that it all seems effortless in achieving great sound. And of course, if it's designed right, you don't need tone controls--it's only when we are stuck in sub optimal rooms that parametric (not really tone controls) adaptation is required. Anyone that took the time to post here, I appreciate it. As such, if anyone who posted here has any specific questions about their room please e-mail me. No, I'm not going to do room design for you, but if you have a specific question about an aspect of your room, e-mail me and hopefully I will have some suggestions for you to try.

Hope its not too late to post but this is a fascinating area and one I think which limits my systems sound and probably many others. A number of very good points were made but I have a bit different perspective. We rennovated our main family room/dining room which has vaulted ceilings and opens into at least 2 other rooms. It was only afterwards that my wife, who loves music, suggested it ok that we put in a new stereo. The 2 channel system (we have no intention to go to home theater) plays music throughout the house and really removes any need for considering multiple speakers or other systems. The big issue with us is that a piano also sits in the room, and 'crowds' the stereo, limiting speaker positioning, but it can't move till we do another reno. Other issues that are important and affect the sound quality are a bay window (you comment on this in your web site), lots of hardwood (even with a rug) and proper positioning of a listening chair. I am reluctant to consider a formal consultation because I think there may not be much that can be done currently till we move the piano out (ie there may be good suggestions but they will be hard to institute because of poor WAF). I think that a dedicated listening room may not necessarily be an ideal situation because having the set up the way we do now lets us enjoy the music a much larger part of the day. By the way, the subject was very interesting and I think not enough attention is given. Thanks for doing this, I hope to be in touch when we start thinking about new renos in about a year to see what we can change with advance planning. Sorry if this seems like idiotic rambling.

Hi Rives. I have a spare room that is in the process of being converted into a 2 channel only "listening room".
The room is 10'8" X 13'4" and has a 6' closet door on 1 long wall and the short walls have a door on 1 and a double window on the other. The other long wall is all sheetrock/plaster and butts the living room. I have the speakers along the short wall with the window for now. I can't put the speakers on the closet wall or door wall, but could put them on the other long wall.
2 questions.
1. Short wall or long wall speaker placement.
2. sound isolation and control without making the room look like a recording studio. Only time I can listen to music at the volume that I enjoy ( sort of loud ) is when the house is vacant.
System is: Monitor Audio 8i's
Bryston 4b pro
VTL 2.5 with MC/MM Phono
Music Hall mmf 7 TT
Music Hall mmf cd25
Synergistic Research Master Control Center
Synergistic Research and Acoustic Zen cables
Sorry for the long email, but I thought too much was better than not enough in this case.
Thank you very much, your expertise and suggestions are greatly appreciated

Gajgmusic: While your situation is unique--it is not so unique. Everyone has certain things about the room they can not or will not change for one reason or another (WAF, kids, aesthetics, etc.) This is very normal and must be considered in any type of design. I think this is one of the main barriers to hiring an acoustical design group, and something that I really feel compelled to respond to. In any group that is worth their salt there should be several important stages in the process. The first is the "discovery" stage. That handles what we are dealing with, what is the room like, what does the client want, what things can or can not be changed. The second is a preliminary concept (or ate least understanding the boundaries and the possibilties within those boundaries), i.e. "We can do this, but you might need to move this or add a rug etc". This stage is just to see if the client is willing to do what is necessary to get a rewarding listening environment. At this point either there can not be a good compromise to get good acoustical results, or there is agreement on what needs to be done. If there is agreement in principle, then it is time to come up with a full plan including a budget, schedule and payment. If not, then nothing else is done, and no one has paid anything. What I am basically saying is that you should have nothing to lose in giving a acoustical group a design and saying "can something be done to help me?" They might say, "Yes if you move the piano"--which you aren't willing to do and thus they may not be able to help. We use an "application form" to start our design processes and the reason is so that we can understand if we really can help our client--if not we let them know.

Gajgmusic...my room is 14x24x8, asymmetric, with a double-door opening on the right rear, and another behind me. AND I also have a 7' Steinway B near the front wall.
The only room geometry that worked was to set up a nearfield triangle (7.5') in FRONT of the piano (which is slightly angled back), with my seat at the very rear of the room, with that opening behind me. The room is of course well-carpeted, and I use a sofa (L) and stuffed chair (R) with a pillow popped on top of each for an occasionally too-splashy sidewall mix). The chore was to find a full-range speaker with orchestral/rock peak ability (3-way) that cohered in the nearfield without taking my head off sitting on-axis...and had a generous center-fill. B&W Nautilus were quickly proved terrible; Thiel 2.3, Ariel 7b weren't bad; Revel Performa F30 worked well, but had really poor WAF.
I eventually stumbled upon Verity Parsifal Encores and heard my jaw drop upon first listening!
I continue to experience a GREAT, wider than speakers, ULTRA-deep soundstage that provides remarkable satisfaction.
Even a great acoustician engineer/friend (Tom Horrall, who's since gone over to the multi-channel crowd) was surprised at the success of my setup (though I still can't forgive him for the bellylaughs everytime he asks me what I spent for cables...). So maybe you too can try an imaginative geometry that works in your room WITH your piano.
Don't be afraid to pull your speakers FORWARD of the piano. That "back" half of the room can provide a GREAT stage.
It's not uncommon for me to "see" singers, tenors, drummers, and of course pianists sitting reight beside the piano. It's just phenomenal for acoustic jazz.
Good Luck.