Suspended Basis vs Nonsuspended Teres

Hi Chris,

I currently have a Basis 2000 and was considering replacing it with a Teres 245. Then I read this thread and started thinking about the suspension and thought what it might do to my 2000. You see, the suspension costs about $1000.00 and a 245, double that plus some. Makes deciding which way to go a trying effort, right?

At any rate, it looks like I'm back to square one: finding answers to help me find a table that will last me a while.

Did someone say the SME is a good design?

George (confused but okay)

cardiackid I did a search on the Vinyl Asylum but did not see any postings at all there from you. http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.pl?searchtext=&b=OR&topics_only=N&forum=vinyl&topic=&author=cardiackid&date1=&date2=&slowmessage=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC

Anyway, you may want to try this question there. There are some individuals with very good engineering backgrounds there that will perhaps respond to your question, which of course has been asked there in the Vinyl Asylum on many occassions. MOST of the time the responses come from those with little background in the study of the technical reasons such decisions are made by a given manufacturer.

To wit: the type of vibrations we are talking about isolating and, almost equally as important, WHY we are trying to isolate them.

A good example of this is the more simplified reason a suspended deck was developed in the first place: Its suspension is tuned, or should be tuned, to somewhere around 3Hz. This means resonances above that freq are isolated from ever reaching the table, so long as the installation is optimized (e.g., a springy floor can spell disaster).

AIRBORN vibrations, such as those coming from a pair of JBL's at 110dB SPL, are of course not isolated from reaching the cart/arm combination. So there are those who will only put their table, isolated or otherwise, in an adjacent room.

The point here is that we must be sure we are talking about specific vibrations that occur in a specific environment (what happens when you live in a flimsy flat in the inner city and trucks roll on by hourly?; Here the ADVANTAGE clearly goes to the suspended deck).

There are those who have taken issue with Mr. Conti's engineering, and are backing this up with their own examples. I am not one of those individuals b/c I am NOT an acoustical, electrical or mechanical engineer, the latter being perhaps the most important in matters of bearing design, the former in helping one with acoutic vibrations.

If you want sound engineering based on mathematical equations to reach some end, and then sophisticated measurements to substantiate the theoretical engineering which is finally substantiated in the listening room, well you may have a hard time squeezing that out of some of the non-suspended deck makers. Perhaps not!

I personally had so much trouble discerning these differences for myself, I ended up buying both a suspended deck and nonsuspended one (modified Gyro SE and modified Scheu). I will not reveal my preference here b/c it would be unfair, as I am not convinced that I have completely optimized either installation, although I've sure done a lot so far.

FWIW

Goyescas

Thank you everyone. I had not given the suspended vs nonsuspended issue enough thought until recently. I will be making a decision soon and I will factor in all of the info provided. Thanks.

Goyescas: I read the vinyl asylum regularly but I have had trouble getting my posts to go through in the past. I am sure it reflects some ineptness on my part. However, I am more of a reader and buyer than a poster to either Audiogon or Audioasylum. I guess I feel I have more to learn than I have good info to share. I am learning from you all and that is fun.

One fact is sure, this suspension issue is very complicated and challenging to many of us. I will be taking an open minded approach to the problem and giving my ears the benefit of the doubt.

Cardiackid,

If you can audition both designs in the same or similar systems, by all means let your ears decide. Just make sure the differences you hear are actually due to the TT's.

FWIW (not much) I chose a non-suspended Teres 265 because:

1) a former Linn dealer, pretty well known and respected around here, said his new Teres destroyed his (suspended) LP12;

2) defeating the suspension in my old, low fi TT produced better results;

3) for my $4K budget it didn't seem like any other TT, suspended or not, could compete;

4) it looks so damn good (sorry but that matters, it's in our living room).

I realize this says virtually nothing about top tables from the likes of Basis or SME. Still, even if a suspension is better in theory, implementing it is complex and maintaining it may be too, depending on the design. If I had more money and time to spend on a TT, then a top Basis, SME or Walker might have been my choice. As it is, I could not be happier with the choice I made. After four months we continue to be astonished by new musical insights and pleasures every evening.

Please let us know how/when/if you answer this question in a way that works for you.

Hi Dougdeacon:

Thanks for the input.

You are absolutely right about listening to different systems. For instance, I have listened to an SME 20/ SMEV/transfiguration set up several times and enjoyed it every time. But, the speakers were large Dunlavys with BAT electronics, all first class. I have Avantgarde/Cary 300B system. So how much can I infer about the TT relative to my system - in particular how dynamic is the sound, how defined is the lower bass, how sweet is the midrange, how spacious and transparent is the imaging. It is really a guess IMO.

I wish there were a centralized venue where one could pay someone to set-up and discuss different components for A-B comparisons. I hate to bother dealers because their time is valuable and I may not end up being a customer for whatever reason. Also, most are trying to sell home theater and time spent with me may be interesting but not profitable. They are in business to make sales.

After all of this discussion, I will post my final decision in Feb sometime. I expect to make the purchases early that month. I am sure, regardless of the decision, there will be disagreement. But, a little controversy makes life interesting.

Thanks again for the help.