Suspended Basis vs Nonsuspended Teres

Thank you all for your input.

Esoxhntr,I have only excerpted part of an e-mail exchange with AJ not a phone conversation. Also, I clearly understand where AJ is coming from and I appreciate and respect his honest opinion. He should be supportive of his own equipment and other equipment he admires. The issue is not AJ for me but whether a nonsuspended table like a Teres is the best decision for me. AJ has provided one perspective.

I am simply trying to get a cross-section of opinion on these TT options in order to make the best decision. I think the Teres has strong supporters but it may benefit from the use of an isolation platform, such as the vibraplane. Does it require it for top performance?

I think the sound of the Teres wooden platter and base maybe acoustically preferable to acrylic. I will need to listen for that answer. I am not sure if the engineering of the Teres platter and bearing and speed control ae not the equal of the Basis.

The last issue is whether the best engineered table is the best sounding table. Where does the art factor fall in to play.

And certainly there are other well engineered table to consider beyond Basis and SME.

Thanks again for the discussion. It helps me to dig out the issues so that I can make a better personal decision.

I own a Basis 2001 / Graham 1.5 T/C arm and a Benz Micro Ruby. My buddy owns a Teres 245 / Orgin live Silver and a Shelter 501 we both own a Audible Illusions mod. 3 with the gold moving coil board. I have VTL 125 mono block amps and Alon 5 speakers . My buddy has a Audio Research VT 100 amp and Alon elite signature speakers so are systems are somewhat alike ? They do sound different the Teres may be a little sweeter sounding with a wonderfull soundstage in the mids and highs . The Basis has great power in the bass and is maybe a little fuller sounding and more dynamic. I like both systems and could live with either for a long time. My ruby is getting a little long in the tooth so a retip may bring the differences a little closer ? I if I was looking to buy a turntable now would look at the Teres 245 /Orgin live arm and Shelter 501/ 901 and the Basis 2001 /2500 and Basis Vector arm with the Ruby 2 but the cost diff I would go with the Teres with no thought on cost I would go for the Basis . This is just My 2 cents I like folk music and classical and My buddy is more rock , blues and other things try and find someone who ownes one of each and see what you like both are great turntables. Marc P/S E mail Me for more info and I will put you in touch with My buddy so you can get more info

Thank you very much Lake513, very helpful. I will e-mail you to expand the discussion briefly later on tonight. Thank you again.

I have a Vibraplane under my Redpoint TT and it does make an excellent base for an unsuspended TT. I do think though that other less expensive base materials such as granite slabs can do a very good job. As far as unsuspended tables in general there are too many variances IMO to make a statement such as that. My unsuspended TT weighs well over 100lbs without the base. There are other unsuspended tables weighing closer to 40-60lbs. These will react much differently to vibrations and I would suspect that the lighter turntables will need increased isolation in comparison to heavier ones.

Hmm, an interesting thread. First I need to point out that AJ's reference to "what Teres said to one of their dealers" is bogus. Teres does not have dealers and I certainly did not say any of the things he mentions. Perhaps he confused Teres with some other manufacturer.

Regarding the suspended/unsuspended debate, I can offer my experience along with some theoretical musings. I find that Teres turntables are not particularly sensitive to how they are sited. They sound better on a rigid, high mass stand but they perform very well on even a cheap lightweight shelf. Nothing new about this. I have never seen any turntable suspended or otherwise that did not benefit from a good stand. If anything I find that Teres turntables are less sensitive to siting than most suspended turntables.

I think that there are some good theoretical reasons for why this would be the case. Perhaps the most important aspect of any turntable design is elimination of vibration and resonance. But we need to be concerned with both internal and external vibration. A remarkable amount of energy is generated by the stylus riding in the groove. That energy is transmitted into the record and also into the tonearm. I suspect that in many cases there is more vibrational energy eminating within the turntable than from external sources. If anything isolation hampers dissipation of energy from within the turntable.

Our approach at Teres is the polar opposite of isolation. We use damping in the form of loose lead shot to dissipate vibrational energy that enters the turntable, regardless of where the energy comes from. Our experience with Teres turntables would seem to indicate that it is the energy from within the turntable that is the most important to dissipate. It is my experience and I think a fairly consistent consensus amoung Teres owners that coupling and dissipation works better than isolation. With few exceptions I find that rigid coupling all the way to the floor sounds best. Any isolation along the way generally does not work well. The idea is to provide a path for dissipating any remaining energy.

A good illustration is the granite surface plates that I have been experimenting with recently. I bought a 154 pound 18x24x3 chunk of granite to put a turntable on and was shocked at how resonant was. I had the plate on some rubber feet and it had prominent, high pitched ring. Placing a turntable on the granite was predictably bad. However, simply removing the rubber feet was a total transformation. Just coupling the granite to the wood shelf I was using nearly eliminated the resonance and it went from a very poor to excellent sounding turntable shelf. With the rubber feet there was no where for the energy to go so it remained undissipated in the granite, wreaking sonic havoc.

So much for the musings. My theories may be bunk, but fortunatley the only thing that really matters is the sound. Whatever the reason, Teres turntables generally do not need or benefit from isolation. And while isolation no doubt has benefits, in some cases it evidently does more harm than good.

Chris