Suspended Basis vs Nonsuspended Teres


Hi:

I am preparing to upgrade my TT and I am seriously considering a Top-of -the-Line Teres with Basis Vector Arm or Graham 2.2 and Shelter 901 combination. In researching the arm, I had some e-mail exchanges with AJ Conti from Basis.

It was kind of him to correspond with me and I am appreciative of his input. Of course, he endorses his own TT but he was very negative about others except SME. I have excerpted a couple sections to illustrate. Is he correct that nonsuspended tables are inferior unless you purchase a Vibraplane platform. And, do we believe that the Basis has 50 dB less environmental noise infiltration than other TT. My lack of hands-on experience with these TT and their strengths and weaknesses leave me wondering. I have no doubt about the quality of Basis TT but I am seeking input from several sources I trust. Audiogon is one.
see comments below.

"The 2001 with Vector is clearly superior to the SME 20 with any arm. The only turntables I would consider, if I were buying out on the market and knew all I know about all of them, would be Basis Debut series, 2500 series, 2001, SME 30, SME 20.

"Once you own the Vector, after you place it on something else, you will wish you bought Basis, especially after you see one, see the platter turn but have it look so stationary you don't think it's turning, such is its rotational accuracy, and they you note the platter on yours
going up and down as it rotates..........or after you realize that even the 2001 is TOTALLY isolated from all room vibrations, including its own motor, while any Teres, VPI, Nottingham have 50 DECIBELS MORE outside world garbage
getting in than the 2001. Yes, 50 decibels. ... That means NOISE, every unisolated turntable, including our own 1400 and 2000 (only offered to get in a lower price range where
all of the competition is unisolated) are full of noise, changing the tonality, losing and obscuring detail which you can never get back. It is pathetic and ridiculous to offer the $3k plus turntables that are offered without isolation, pretending cones and mulitple layers of actylic and other materials can "isolate" (proving the incompetance or dishonesty) of the designer or sales guy at the company. I love what Teres said to one of their dealers: "We can't
compete with the expertise, fixturing, tooling that Basis has, but here's why we are great-we listen to each one and throw away an entire unit if it does not sound good." What a great statement of "We don't know what we're doing, but
we try hard to not let poor product out the door."

cardiackid

Showing 1 response by teres

Hmm, an interesting thread. First I need to point out that AJ's reference to "what Teres said to one of their dealers" is bogus. Teres does not have dealers and I certainly did not say any of the things he mentions. Perhaps he confused Teres with some other manufacturer.

Regarding the suspended/unsuspended debate, I can offer my experience along with some theoretical musings. I find that Teres turntables are not particularly sensitive to how they are sited. They sound better on a rigid, high mass stand but they perform very well on even a cheap lightweight shelf. Nothing new about this. I have never seen any turntable suspended or otherwise that did not benefit from a good stand. If anything I find that Teres turntables are less sensitive to siting than most suspended turntables.

I think that there are some good theoretical reasons for why this would be the case. Perhaps the most important aspect of any turntable design is elimination of vibration and resonance. But we need to be concerned with both internal and external vibration. A remarkable amount of energy is generated by the stylus riding in the groove. That energy is transmitted into the record and also into the tonearm. I suspect that in many cases there is more vibrational energy eminating within the turntable than from external sources. If anything isolation hampers dissipation of energy from within the turntable.

Our approach at Teres is the polar opposite of isolation. We use damping in the form of loose lead shot to dissipate vibrational energy that enters the turntable, regardless of where the energy comes from. Our experience with Teres turntables would seem to indicate that it is the energy from within the turntable that is the most important to dissipate. It is my experience and I think a fairly consistent consensus amoung Teres owners that coupling and dissipation works better than isolation. With few exceptions I find that rigid coupling all the way to the floor sounds best. Any isolation along the way generally does not work well. The idea is to provide a path for dissipating any remaining energy.

A good illustration is the granite surface plates that I have been experimenting with recently. I bought a 154 pound 18x24x3 chunk of granite to put a turntable on and was shocked at how resonant was. I had the plate on some rubber feet and it had prominent, high pitched ring. Placing a turntable on the granite was predictably bad. However, simply removing the rubber feet was a total transformation. Just coupling the granite to the wood shelf I was using nearly eliminated the resonance and it went from a very poor to excellent sounding turntable shelf. With the rubber feet there was no where for the energy to go so it remained undissipated in the granite, wreaking sonic havoc.

So much for the musings. My theories may be bunk, but fortunatley the only thing that really matters is the sound. Whatever the reason, Teres turntables generally do not need or benefit from isolation. And while isolation no doubt has benefits, in some cases it evidently does more harm than good.

Chris