John Dunlavy On "Cable Nonsense"

Thanks Chris. Clearly you're knowledgeable! Seems though that digital source equipment can't produce quality up to what we can hear, so we can probably measure at a similar quality level and get some meaningful results.

The dcs 904 will sample at 192 khz 24 bits.

But then of course, the cables could have such subtle effects that these measurements won't be meaningful. The differences I have heard with interconnects though lead me to think that they could be measured fairly easily. l liked lemme's idea of inverting channel polarity and comparing that way with different cables on each. Very clever.

Trappist.

I have to say I would agree with those who hear differences in speaker cable. These differences are measurable with a SPL meter.

Here are some measurements of speaker cables I have taken with a Radio Shack meter. This was comparing Monster MC1 (I think that was the type) versus another cable. The differences in the cables were actually greater in the mid ranges and treble end (to my ear), but I took these measurements because I was trying to diagnose and tame some bass problems I was having with the speakers. I did alternating tests Monster - Other Cable - Monster - Other Cable - Monster - Other Cable, and the results were consistent. The source for these measurements was the Stereophile Test CD 3 bass decade 1/3 octave warble tones.

Freq. Monster Inexpensive Delta
200 83 84 +1
160 83 84-85 +1.5
125 81-82 83-84 +2
100 86 87 +1
80 92 92 +0
63 85 85 +0
50 82 82 +0
40 81 81-82 +0.5
31.5 74 74-75 +0.5
25 73 73 +0
20 66 67 +1
As you can see there are some very definate differences on this most basic of all tests, which is able to be conducted by anyone with $50.00 and enough gumption to do them. Forget measurements we can't make yet or don't know to make yet, while I think there are some out there, but let's stick to what we can measure now.

How about some people actually measure some cable out there instead of just making unsubstantiated claims that all cable sounds the same or vice vesa?

Gpalmer, your test results have blown me away. I would have not expected them to be that different. I would like to see several people try to measure the differences and give a detailed report. Chris

Waveform measurments are made all the time and no differences are foundusing the test as I suggested above. Your results are flawed because it is near impossible to gather accurate acoustic measuments in a standard reflective rool with a time averaged meter as the RS. You will have better measurments to use a dvm at the speaker terminals so all of the sound bouncing off the walls do not enter into your measurments. Good luck though!

leme

Well, I think we might be setting out to prove different propositions. I am not trying to measure exactly how much difference exists. I am trying to show that a somewhat reasonable and impartial model of the human ear can detect and measure differences in the exact same environment humans listen in. I am not trying to demonstrate the exact amount rather that differences do exist and are easily measurable. The closeness of a SPL meter to the human ear is topic for another thread to debate.

The question of reflection of sound waves strikes me as a red herring unless you are suggesting that human beings also listen in a reflection free environment. Since I listen in exactly the environment I measured, I am reasonably sure that there's a match there :-). I am not trying to prove what causes the difference either. I am pretty uncaring about the reasons unless they can lead me in a direction which leads to improvement. Conjectures such as little green men following each speaker cable around and pushing a little harder in some spots than others is fine with me as long as it is repeatable and reproducible and directly related to the usage of the cable in the system.

The SPL meter was mounted on a tripod one meter away from the woofer and was never moved during the testing. The gain on the preamp and power amps was never changed. The speakers never moved. The input source material was exactly the same and for exactly the same time. Three trials of each cable were performed. The only part of the system which changed during the measurements was the speaker cable and each time it changed, the same results were obtained, except for a half dB on one measurement of one trial of the non-Monster cable.

So bottom line, I don't really see how measurable and repeatable differences in the target environment can be ignored, since that is exactly what I am trying to show, and exactly what a human would hear, but whatever. I would really rather see what some other peoples results under the same conditions and with different cables are. Those results says a lot more to me than any testing I myself perform. Could be I had a defective or unusual cable in there and no one else in the entire world can reproduce the results with any brand of cables, ever. Only one way to tell...