Speaker wire is it science or psychology

Trelja: I've seen similar measurements, but they don't, by themselves, prove what you think they prove. Just because a difference is measurable (and every cable will measure differently) doesn't mean it's audible. Whether we can hear a frequency response anomaly depends on how big it is, how braod a band it covers, and whether it's a dip or a peak. That said, some cables do affect frequency response enough to be audible. Most of those roll off the high end, which some audiophiles seem to like even though they insist they're looking for something that sounds like "real music." Go figure.

See what I mean? Jostler, there was no need. I said I hear differences, but it's "hard to imagine how wire could impart SUCH A LARGE BOOST to any part of the frequency range." As opposed to a smaller boost (although that I still dont understand) or a cut (which I do think happens). My impression of the Kimber cable jph was talking about is the same as he reported measuring. It sounds a little bright and forward, because, I think, the highest frequencies are attenuated compared to the upper midrange low treble and presence region. But that's just my guess. I have no proof of anything, including whether or not I can hear at all.

Oh, and trust me, if I say I can hear a difference in imaging, the room, equipment and music are the same. Just the wires are changed. But you know, the differences are subtle and may well be imaginary. I have no interest in arguing with anyone about this subject.

Paulwp: I agree that a boost is implausible, but I've seen frequency response plots for cables with HF rolloffs down several dB at 20kHz. Also, I think you're talking about someone's measurement with a consumer-grade SPL meter, which is not a tool designed for frequency response tests. That seems the most likely explanation for the "boost," to me at least.

The rest of my post was meant to try to square what you thought you heard with what cables might actually be doing to the signal (though we're talking hypotheticals here). My point was that cable measurements might very well correlate with at least some of what you think you hear, which would be solid evidence that you were not simply imagining it. That's a good thing.

Jostler, the cable length for the 12 gauge vs 18 gauge need only be 8' - 10' or so. Nothing "fancy" or "trick" going on. It's simple math. The 12 gauge will offer lower resistance with relatively high inducatance. On the other hand, 18 gauge has a higher series resistance but much lower inductance. In plain English, the 12 gauge will sound darker ( far less glaring with digital sources ), have somewhat "pinched" mids, display a rolled off treble response while sounding very strongly biased towards "fullness" or "bottom end". On the other hand, the 18 gauge will produce a far more open and natural midrange with greater air and extension in the treble regions. Bottom end would be quite lean sounding while lacking impact. I did the above test to a salesperson and a couple of customers at a Best Buy ( NO, I DON'T WORK THERE ). All of them could easily identify the differences in cables even though they didn't know which wire was which. For the record, i used the A-B switch on a receiver and not the "rotating balance" method. Sean
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Well, stating that psychology is science was such a reach I almost went right past this discussion.
But I like the subject so.
For the past 5 months I have lived with 3 cables. An 8 foot pair of Harmonic Tech Pro-11 Plus, an 8 foot pair of Alpha-core MI 3 Divinity, and a 2 meter pair of Nordost Red Dawn.
Up front there are very noticeable differences with these cables but any kind of blind testing will not answer which cable is best or what are the specific differences. The only way that I could really tell the differences was to listen to music day after day with the different cables in for 2 weeks at a time. ( All cables were broken in before this test ). My equipment is a set of Dynaudio 1.3 SE's with a Krell 250a and a NAD Silverline pre amp ( Al my interconnects are Harmonic Tech Pro Silway ). Not the most refined or the best matches but good enough to easily tell the signature of each cable. I used my "non-audiophile" wife to check for the real obvious differences which were obviously easy to hear.
But only after continuous listening real differences become definable. Each cable had it’s plusses and minuses. Non did everything well and none did everything bad. In fact, there were all very good cables.
But only one was the best overall for my particular system ( It was the Harmonic Tech which was probably due in part to having the rest of the system wired with the same wire ). Musical instruments sounded different. The bass was better, tighter. Or the highs were more silky or defined. The highs and the mids were blending better. I think that one of the real issues is Synergy. ( Which test would an Electro-Eng use to identify or define that scale? ). In case that description didn’t wave at you. Gapping a non-resistor AC spark plug to .030 instead of the recommended .035 gave my 351 Cleveland Mach I a noticeable power gain in the 3500 to 4000 RPM range. It didn’t show on the scope. It just did. And so did I .
Well, I don’t give a rat’s fart if you hear the difference or not. I wish that I could not tell a difference. It would have saved me lots of money. Heck, imagine how much money we all could have saved if a Sound Design all in one system sounded the same as our current equipment. That would be great! But even little children can tell the difference. And so we must do the obvious.
If and am psychin’ myself and everyone else who hears my system. Then I really have some awesome powers and I am going to try to find a way to charge for them. The bottom line is, you hear the difference, buy them. You don’t hear the difference, don’t buy them. Just enjoy your system
As far as spending $10,000 on a set of speaker cables, I don’t see that ever happening. No matter how much money I make. There are just too many cables out there that will get you to 90% to 95% of the way. If you have spent $100,000 on your system, then by all means, get the very last ounce of resolution. That is your deal. I respect that. But I will not. The diminishing returns are not enough for me. Every time I looked at my $10,000 speaker cables, I would be able to hear the manufacture sitting on his yacht laughing at me. And then I will need to spend some real money on some Psych to convince me that I can’t hear that.