Speaker wire is it science or psychology

It takes time to acclimate ones' self with the sonic attributes of a system. Some differences are very subtle at best while others can be quite noticeable. Sticking someone into a room with an unknown quantity and then asking them to identify which is which is not a very accurate way to decipher if there is a subtle difference. It would be like asking someone to identify identical twins. While someone that was not familiar with them might not have a clue, those that are FAMILIAR with them would probably be able to identify them without a problem. It is the same with a well tuned and familiar audio system and specific passages of music. There are subtle "hints" that would and will give things away. IF the listener pays attention.

As to blind testing and ABX'ing, you guys keep forgetting about Moncrieff from IAR. He was able to verify whether there was or wasn't an "approved" ABX switchbox installed in the system, let alone wire or component changes. He did this with outside witnesses and had a 100% accuracy rate. While i'm not saying that i or anyone else could duplicate those listening feats, it obviously shows that it can be done.

By the way, the guy that built and designed the first ABX test box and started all of the hoopla is the guy that built and designed some of my preamps. His name is David Spiegel for the record. He now designs safety and security systems for monitoring Nuclear Power Plants.

I found the story about the RIAA circuit quite amusing. It sounds like gibberish, but it was quite amusing. I don't know of any design engineer that would work like that and keep his job in ANY field. Designing a component and then voicing it are different things. Trying to do both at the same time would typically result in an utter mess or take far too long to make the results worthwhile.

Do the test that i gave you with 18 gauge zip cord and 12 gauge zip. Put two speakers next to each other and place the system into mono mode using a reference quality recording for the source material. This will feed identical signals to the two speakers. Then swing your balance between the two speakers and tell me that there are NO sonic differences. A better method is to use an a-b switchbox so that you don't have the volume change as you rotate the balance, but not everyone has this capability. Don't bother wasting our time if YOU are not willing to back up your assertions. Why should we go out of our way to respond to your "troll" when you won't even investigate something with an open mind to begin with? If you think that your response is "psychologically tainted" because you know which wire is where, hide them as best as possible and ask your wife or one of your buddies that does not have a clue if they hear a difference. Tell them to be as specific as they can in terms of describing the differences IF there are any. Since you are the skeptic, i don't think that we have to worry about your placing preconcieved notions in their heads. Report back with the results and we can go from there.... Sean
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Mtrycraft, is that you hiding behind the moniker of Stevemj ??? : )

I find this type of post to be nothing more than a troll from some "pseudo-scientific spud". Someone that was truly interested in finding out if differences really do exist would simply conduct some A-B comparisons and decide for themselves. While using similar designs should result in similar results, the smart thing to do would be to try very different designs with measurably different electrical characteristics. This would then either confirm or deny that the source component was load sensitive and if the cables really did produce identical sonic performances.

If someone DOESN'T think that there is a difference, try using some standard 18 gauge "zip cord" and some 12 gauge "monster" type zip cord. Since the "wire blaspemers" claim that there is no difference and have been saying so for appr. 25 years now, you should not notice any difference in tonal balance, low frequency impact or definition, high frequency detail or definition or overall apparent volume level. This "test" should cost you well under $15 if you buy "generic" goods. Since "wire is wire", namebrands wouldn't matter anyhow. This is not to say that one is "better" than the other, simply that there ARE differences.

As an electronics tech by trade, i can neither explain nor understand why cables might have the effects that they do on an audio system or individual component. In the RF regions that i work with, cable lengths and impedances make VERY MEASURABLE differences in most systems. While most disregard the "babble" about skin effect, dielectric absorption, velocity factors, etc.. and say that we are dealing with "audio frequencies" and not radio waves, that does NOT mean that their effects are not audible or that audible differences between various designs don't exist. My ears tell me that they do and under some conditions, the differences are EXTREMELY and BLATANTLY noticeable.

It is also quite noticeable to Nelson Pass, who wrote on this very subject back in the late 1970's. He published this info in an article on speaker cables and "snake oil" in a magazine that was available on any news stand. This can be found, along with a detailed explanation and electrical measurements and pictures taken from his oscilloscope, on the Pass Labs website under "articles".

Since i am not rich by any means, i would prefer that there were NO differences so that i could simply use the cheapest stuff available that would do the job. Unfortunately, that is not the case so i am left to find what SOUNDS the best in my specific systems. While i WILL NOT pay the insane prices that many companies ask, i am not against others doing that and then having them sell it to me for a fraction of what they paid : ) I am also a big fan of "DIY" ( Do It Yourself ) designs and have had pretty good luck with the designs of a few others on the net.

I'm sure that there are MANY Audiogon'ers that are in the same boat and would beg to differ with the stance that you seem to be taking. As such, all i can say is that if there were absolutely no differences between cables, you wouldn't have people on both sides of the fence. It would be cut and dried with nothing left to decide. Since there IS a large quantity ( even non "audiophiles" ) that have heard the differences simply tells me that our measurement techniques are not nearly as advanced as we think they are. Sean
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Jostler, the cable length for the 12 gauge vs 18 gauge need only be 8' - 10' or so. Nothing "fancy" or "trick" going on. It's simple math. The 12 gauge will offer lower resistance with relatively high inducatance. On the other hand, 18 gauge has a higher series resistance but much lower inductance. In plain English, the 12 gauge will sound darker ( far less glaring with digital sources ), have somewhat "pinched" mids, display a rolled off treble response while sounding very strongly biased towards "fullness" or "bottom end". On the other hand, the 18 gauge will produce a far more open and natural midrange with greater air and extension in the treble regions. Bottom end would be quite lean sounding while lacking impact. I did the above test to a salesperson and a couple of customers at a Best Buy ( NO, I DON'T WORK THERE ). All of them could easily identify the differences in cables even though they didn't know which wire was which. For the record, i used the A-B switch on a receiver and not the "rotating balance" method. Sean
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