Stylus Drag

Hi Folks, thanks for your comments so far. Some comments from me:

I agree with Halcro that the Raven slows down when the needle hits the groove. I base this on the shift in speed as observed with the KAB strobe disk. So I usually set speed with the needle in the groove. So clearly stylus drag is impacting speed, but I can't tell if it deviates based on the fluctuations in modulation of the actual record on speed has been set taking average drag into account. But it apprears Halcro has observed changes in speed with havily modulated sections of the record using the TimeLine. The key question is whether or not this small change is audible.

I agree with Atmasphere and Mosin (in the other thread on turntable speed accuracy) that the best way to listen for speed stability is by assessing the soundstage expansiveness and the small, faint micro-dynmaic and timberal details in the recording, in addition to the sheer dynamics. These come across more clearly than possibly changes in pitch.

The best description I heard about TT's is that they are "rotating resonance machines". Very true! We need to worry about both speed and resonance.

Andrew

Yes, the only way to set the speed is with the needle in the groove. You are trying to make it perfect for the conditions in which you listen. You don't listen with the stylus on the tonearm mount, do you?

As for MC's having more drag ... I can only surmise that, since most MC's have Shibata or a fine line stylus, they sit lower in the groove than MM's which have more rounded tips. So there is expected to be more drag for MC's. At least that makes sense to me.

Yes, technically there is drag that will vary but practically I would not worry about it if speed is set properly with a quality table like yours that appears to have a massive platter. The drive mechanism combined with inertia of a heavy platter rotating should make any variable stylus drag effects insignificant practically I would expect.

If it does not sound good or good enough for some reason, I would look for a problem elsewhere before worrying at all about this. If it sounds good enough to you, then just enjoy and don't sweat any details that do not matter.

Also a good point above to make sure that the record itself is not the culprit with a speed variation issue. Try looking head on at the cart as it tracks near the outer edge and try to detect any cyclical lateral motion as the record spins. That is the indicator of an off-center cut record that will likely produce speed/pitch/other sonic variations as it rotates that may or may not be audible depending.

TO eliminate all nasty potential snafus with vinyl playback, which was invented over a century ago, go digital. Nowadays, jitter is practically the main noise related issue to deal with and technology is to the point these days where that can be easily rendered a non issue with most any decent digital source. With noise issues practically non existent, all you have to worry about is finding the DAC that sounds good to you. SOme can even come pretty close to sounding like vinyl depending!

..just for the halibut, I checked the speed of my VPI Superscoutmaster/Rim drive with and without the arm playing the record. I put on a record with a wide dynamic swing, and the hash lines of the strob remain in place...not moving forward or backward no matter if the record was played or not. Id be interested in the results of a belt drive, and a direct drive table if anyone with those pieces should be inclined to test them.

If you search the forums you will find that all 'tables, regardless of drive choice, have to deal with stylus drag. Don't take my word, search. It has been reported by several designers/manufacturers. Also, as several designers have schooled me, there is no such flywheel effect from heavy platters that compensates for this.