2. analog
  3. 1323360300

Optimizing TNT, Triplanar, Transfiguration Temper

I'm writing because of a combination of frustration and potential in my turntable set-up. I have never gotten the sound from the system that I expected, but feel that I am beginning to glimpse the potential of achieving it. I have made some changes recently that have led to more changes that have brought me closer to what I have heard from other systems with similar components. I am hoping someone can guide me toward finally obtaining the basic qualities that I'm looking for and I can fine-tune from there.
What I have heard before from lesser components and am not getting is the sound of the transients jumping off the record. I thought this problem was merely from the characteristics of the Transfiguration Temper Supreme, but with some modifications of the table I am beginning to hear it and wanted to see if I could bring it out further.
Let me back-track and tell you my components and what modifications I have made so far. I am running a VPI TNT upgraded to 4 (w/ the rectangle cutout for the motor), with the original motor and just added an SDS (which made the biggest improvement), a Wheaton Triplanar tonearm upgraded to VI, and a Transfiguration Temper Supreme cartridge.
When I upgraded to the SDS, the timing and solidity of the sound improved dramatically. I then found that using a single belt directly from the motor to the table actually outperformed the three-pully design originally designed for the table, perhaps with some trade-offs, i.e. voices sound clearer and better-defined, but piano may have a little less air and realism.
Finally, the table sits behind the speakers, particularly the left speaker. Moving the speaker forward a few inches seemed to significantly clean up the sound, so vibrations from the back of the (B & W 803) speaker may be muddying the water. My other components are Spectral DMC-20 and DMA-180 and MIT/Spectral reference cables.
Like I said, I am glimpsing the potential of this setup, and the music is starting to clean up and jump off the record, but it's just not quite there. I feel like I'm missing something simple and would like advice before making a lot of changes. I think I've set the cartridge up properly with regard to alignment, azimuth, VTA and no anti-skate. I have not removed the damping trough yet, and that is the next thing I was thinking to try. I am planning to try to further isolate the table from the speakers - the cable lengths prevent me from totally moving the preamp and turntable. I was also considering using different belts or string/dental floss etc. Another possibility is investing in a single-motor flywheel, which also would not use the three pulleys included with the TNT turntable. But, I feel that there is something simple and straightforward with the front-end that I am missing. Any advice?
128x128ctlphd
ctlphd's avatar
ctlphd OP
42 posts
 
Thanks for your comments. I believe the turntable started as series 3, but not 100% sure as I bought it used. It has the dual solid pieces fused together for the basic platform, with the rectangular cutout. I upgraded to the ball suspension pods. It sits on a TNT stand filled with sand. I don't have a lot of money to spend at this time, so I think a different table is out of the question at this point.
Tobes, how big a difference did the single motor flywheel make? I understand they are phasing it out, so if I'm going to buy one, I need to get it now. Also, I thought about the motor sitting directly on the stand being a source of vibration, as it is not isolated like the table. I don't know of any solution to this, as any feet that I'm aware of would put it too high.
Manitunc, I had thought of the innertube solution for other components, but I'm skeptical that it will make a big difference since the table is already on the air-filled ball suspension pods. Although, I worked in an electrophysiology lab where we use air tables, so I know what a difference they make in vibration control, as we worked with microelectrodes under a microscope.
Tobes, I wasn't aware of the Symposium 'rollerblock' isolators, but they might be worth investigating further. Not sure how expensive they are.
Regarding other tables, the comparison I am making is to a HW-19 with Wheaton Triplanar and Benz Micro Glider, which should in theory have worse performance than my setup. So, I'm not sure why I getting inferior performance. I'm still wondering if it has something to do with the table being behind the speaker (about 2 1/2 feet). I'm also thinking some sort of acoustic absorber between the two might help.
ctlphd's avatar
ctlphd OP
42 posts
 
Ptmconsulting, thanks also for your reply. We must have posted nearly simultaneously. I will be investigating these fixes over the next few days/week, but I have one initial question. What do you mean by minimal damping? Did you remove the damping trough?
ptmconsulting
1,000 posts
 
I have a Moerch DP6, not a Triplaner. Can;t speak to the TP arm, but my Moerch sounded best with very little or no damping goo. Far more lively and much better to my ears. I would suggest using damping sparingly on any arm - it seems to suck the life out of the music.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
While I haven't heard a Temper in my system (I also have TriPlanar), I don't believe most Trannys would benefit from damping and I'd definitely remove the trough. You should hear a lower sound floor and more low level detail. Not so much benefit on transients in my system, but certainly no harm.

While you're at it, remove the A/S mechanism as an experiment. The improvements in my setup were similar to removing the damping trough, though subtler. If you're not using it it's just an unnecessary resonance trap.

Importantly, you didn't say whether you've optimized VTF or if so, how. Excessive VTF (like excessive antiskate) saps transient speed and dynamics very quickly. With my ZYX UNIverse if I'm just .01-.02g above optimal VTF I lose some snap, just as you described.

Try fine tuning VTF so that you're playing JUST BARELY above the mistracking point (like .01-.03g above). That's where I play all the best LOMC's I've used. Any less downforce and bass weakens before actual mistracking begins. Any more downforce and HFs go soft and micro-dynamics and transient leading edges start getting smothered. You need to find the zone between these problems and play there.

Where that zone is exactly and how wide it is varies from one individual cartridge to the next. Each cartridge is unique and at this level you can't fine tune by using a test record or sticking to recommended ranges. Optimal VTF changes constantly, not only with the weather but even (once you learn how to listen for it) from LP to LP. Try fine tuning that before spending any money.

stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,368 posts
 
I replaced the VPI minifeet on many models of VPI turntables. Each time there was a huge improvement in sound. My caveat is that I haven't tried it on your model TNT, but I can't see how it wouldn't follow the the same preformance as my Supersoutmaster/Rim Drive. All VPI turntables need a very solid path to the middle of the earth. The VPI feet have "give" in them which is awful for the turntable...the reason that Gingko platforms/rubber balls are awful (yes they are). An easy replacement for the minifeet are Bearpaws (Vermontaudio.com). I have no financial connection in any way to Dan, but the improvement in the VPI table is extraordinay with the addition of these things and the elimination of the "giving" feet.
More to discover