Brinkmann Bardo vs Transrotor Fat Bob Reference

Lew;

You aren't crazy! That is also what I ended up concluding. So did Fremer (if the excepts I read are accurate).

That table really has a nice pace to it. I liked it a lot.

I will read the article at TAS. Thanks for the heads-up.

Hi Lewm, reading your comments it would seem on paper the Bardo's direct drive system is technically superior to the Fat Bob Reference, however i'm not so sure the TR's belt drive would suffer from "stretchiness" since it uses a much shorter precision machined belt which only has to drive a low mass sub-platter, which in turn drives the main platter. Thus I would have thought TR's TMD is more accurate than a conventional belt-driven design? My listening impressions of the Fat Bob demonstrated it has excellent PRAT. It was clearly superior to the ZET 3.1 which does not have TMD and uses a more conventional design to drive the main platter. Stepping away from design differences for a moment, the other variable is implementation, so it would be great to hear from an AG'er who has heard both the FB Ref & Bardo.

I have no direct knowledge of the Transrotor IMD, and I did not mean to imply so. It may work great. When I was last considering a new Belt Drive tt, a Transrotor with IMD was near the top of a very short list. I do have to wonder whether the magnetic drive itself permits something akin to what can happen with a stretch-y belt. That's all I was trying to say. I would look closely at it, if I were considering buying one. In my present state of mind, I tend to favor direct-drive or idler-drive. So I am not unbiased, and perhaps my remark was unfair or unjustified.

Hi Lewm, thanks for the clarification about the stretch you were commenting on. I guess what you fall back on is Transrotor have been building turntables for 40 years, so that's got to account for something. Still I do admire the Bardo which I think is a well engineered table. What a nice problem to have!

I can add some insight regarding using the TMD bearing versus the standard bearing in a Transrotor Apollon turntable. It is not a Fat Bob S, but it is using the same TMD bearing. The Brinkmann Bardo costs nearly twice as much as the Fat Bob S in Germany. I do not have much information regarding the Brinkmann except that it is also a fine turntable and have seen and heard it at various audio shows in Germany.

I use three 180mm short drive belts. In addition, my Apollon has been modded to every factory upgrade possible. 80mm platter, 3M Konstant 3 motor controller, and the TMD bearing. Prior to the TMD bearing upgrade, my turntable would free wheel for a while before it would stop and the start up from a stop was easier. When I added the TMD bearing; the force of the magnets are powerful on the TMD bearing assembly which now cause the platter start and stops to be more forceful as the inertia of either start or stop must overcome the magnetic field during initial start up and when you stop. When I mean forceful, the initial spin requires a good amount of torque to spin the platter from a stop. I do notice as my belts get older, I need to help the platter along, well with almost a 30 lb platter with record clamp, maybe it ought to be for every start, regardless of age of the belts, that is a lot of strain for any belt, even three.

The main differences I notice, and this is spoken from layman's terms as I do not claim to be any expert in such technology, is that the speed of the platter is a lot more stable, without speed drift that seemed to creep in every so often with the non-magnetic platter, as measured by my strobe disk. I think in part this is more of an indication of the electrical fluctuations than anything and to a degree to the non TMD platter versus the TMD platter. With the TMD, the effect of the electrical fluctuations have less of an effect on the platter causing the speed to remain more stable. I wish that the Transrotor had some type of speed controller that shows the speed in actual time and corrects the speed as needed. The upgraded speed controller is excellent and provides quartz controlled power to three motors, and I can adjust the speed as necessary after I measure it using the strobe disk or the Sutherland Timeline.

Okay, what does this boil down to? It means, that when I bought the TMD option, I thought of the physics, from a novice point of view and related that to many years as an audio geek, and decided that TMD was worth the upgrade, because the drifting speed in turntables I had before were present in other belt driven turntables I have owned; Panasonic, Pioneer, and the only non belt driven turntable I owned, the Denon DP62L, which was always speed stable. I never second guessed my decision, and despite looking at some other costlier options, I am pretty sure I will be content for the rest of my life with the TMD option, especially on the TR Apollon. The Fat Bob S has received some excellent reviews here in Germany and other parts of the world.

I hope this gives you a personal perspective concerning the TMD bearing and what it did to help me enjoy listening to music even more, in which case, I never can get enough.

Good luck with your decision, you will be happy either no matter what decision you make, it is for yourself after all.

Ciao,
Audioquest4life