Brinkmann Bardo vs Transrotor Fat Bob Reference


I'm wondering if anyone can tell me the differences between these two turntables? They are similar in price & both have hydrodynamic magnetic bearings, although the Brinkmann is direct drive as opposed to the more conventional design of the TR. Any opinions or experiences would be appreciated!
melbguy1

Showing 12 responses by lewm

Dear MG, I am a bit confused. Are the FMD and the TMD two different things? Sounds like you are saying that the FMD is a later development of TMD(?) Thanks for any info.
Dear Chosenhandle, You wrote, "I was surprised how different it sounded from la grange and balance. Much more lively sound." Call me crazy, but perhaps that is the difference between belt drive and direct drive that you heard. Thus, the Transrotor, I think, uses a belt to drive a magnetic subplatter which then drives the main platter without touching it. Great idea as far as low noise, but it must have some "stretch-i-ness" in terms of precision, kind of like a rubber drive belt vs a string or tape drive belt.

For laughs, you must read the description of the Bardo in the latest Absolute Sound. Paul Seydor describes the drive system without using the word "direct" and makes it sound terribly exotic and novel and "magnetic". Heck, it's got a coreless motor and uses direct drive, both great ideas that seem unfamiliar to the reviewer.
I have no direct knowledge of the Transrotor IMD, and I did not mean to imply so. It may work great. When I was last considering a new Belt Drive tt, a Transrotor with IMD was near the top of a very short list. I do have to wonder whether the magnetic drive itself permits something akin to what can happen with a stretch-y belt. That's all I was trying to say. I would look closely at it, if I were considering buying one. In my present state of mind, I tend to favor direct-drive or idler-drive. So I am not unbiased, and perhaps my remark was unfair or unjustified.
I don't know the price of either 'table, but I must say I am very surprised to learn that the Bardo is so much more than Fat Bob. If the difference, even with all those options on the FB Reference, is two-fold in favor of the Transrotor, then I don't wonder that you chose the latter.
Dear Mel, Now that you made your choice, there is little point in this, but in the case of the Bardo, you would never want to or have to purchase an optional outboard PS. The Bardo, like all direct-drive turntables, must include its own outboard power supply which needs to be linked to the motor speed via a servo, in order to stablize the drive. In this case, additional AC treatments preceding the motor supply module are unnecessary if not even a bad thing. So the difference in cost between the two still equals the cost of a tonearm, which is not inconsiderable.
I don't know about the Bardo, but the SP10 external power supply converts AC from the wall socket to DC and delivers three discrete DC voltages to the main chassis. I guess it could not hurt to supply it with "clean" AC, if one lives in an environment where the AC could be contaminated with noise from machinery, etc. But Glai, if your SP10 was not running rock solid at speed before you interposed a conditioner, then I would posit that it is not performing optimally, possibly due to bad electrolytic capacitors, if you've never replaced them. I was supposing that the Bardo motor also runs off DC derived in its outboard supply, when I stated that an additional outboard supply, between the wall socket and the Bardo box would be redundant, at best. What I meant was that there would be no expense with respect to purchasing something like a Walker Audio Motor Controller or VPI SDS, or the like. AC regenerators or purifiers and whether they help is another matter.
Glai, I apologize if I sounded offensive or aggressive. I thought you had written something to the effect that you "noticed" improved speed stability when you introduced the AC regenerator. This to me meant that you looked at the little strobe device on your SP10 and could see that the orange and black display was noticeably more stable, which is what prompted my remark about capacitors. On the other stuff, it seems we are in agreement.

By the way, please don't laugh, but my SP10 Mk3 is still sitting on the floor in my office/study. I have yet to put the plinth together and have been quite happy with my Kenwood L07D and my Lenco, in the meantime. I did make some progress over the weekend, and there's not much left to do except to drill the armboard.
When I first read about TMD, I was enchanted. What a great idea! I was actually ready to buy a Transrotor with TMD, before I started my investigation of direct drive and idler drive. I still think the Transrotors are fine turntables, but now I see TMD as the interposition of another drive motif between the belt itself and the platter. So, I would be wary that the TMD system adds unwanted compliance where there is already some unwanted compliance from the belt itself. (Did I read somewhere that some Transrotor aficionados prefer to pass up on the TMD option? If so, that's telling.) As someone else said, direct-drive could be thought of as a form of TMD, but with any true direct-drive motor, the force (torque) that controls the platter motion would be more powerful, less compliance between the stator and the rotor=platter than with pure permanent magnet TMD. I make no judgement for anyone but me.
Tips on Denon restoration:
(1) Send it to Bill Thalmann at Music Technologies in Springfield, VA, for a complete evaluation and repair as needed. If the strobe is inoperative, it may mean that the one IC used in the Denon circuitry is at least partially damaged. I can help you to find an NOS one.
(2) I will be happy to supply to you the drawing I made in order (in pdf form) to have a piece of slate cut to fit the Denon (all Denon DP chassis' have the same shape, I think). I can tell you where I bought my slate slab and where I had it cut by waterjet, too.
Hey, you live in my area. You can come by any time (with some advance notice).
I looked it up, too. Life could have been simpler if they just made a direct-drive turntable instead, the new politically correct term for which is "magnetic drive". Why bother with the belt at all? If one insists on the ultimate in isolation, they could have made a direct-drive that magnetically drives the top platter. Maybe I can get to hear Audioquest's TMD some day.
Audioquest, On the Asylum, I am "Lew". You can also contact me by finding my ad here for selling a pair of Sound Lab M1 stat panels, has my cell phone number too.
I too apologize if I offended Melbguy, but I think of Aussies as tough people, assuming his moniker indicates he is from Melbourne. I note that Melbguy opened this thread a year ago with a question, asking for a comparison of Transrotor to Brinkmann Bardo. It seems along the way he made his decision in favor of Transrotor and then was possibly offended by the continuing debate of the pros and cons of the TR drive systems. Anyway, I think we are all trying to teach each other and learn from one another as well. No harm was intended by anyone, I am sure, certainly not by me.