How is it ? that a tuner smokes the table ???

You nailed it, Mapman. After Jimpcn made this statement this entire discussion is almost moot because it is a matter of preference in the end.

The tuner sounds similiar but has more dynamics and colorations, but is intimate, and just sounds damn good.

the amplifiers are transistor, preamp is tube nice combo;

also I don't buy the argument that his TT front end
belongs to that boring category, because I already mentioned that at times his table has more depth than the tuner, body is good and dynamics ok but not as good as the tuner; but in areas that are most important to recreate live sound the tuner dose a better job; IMO

If TT sound so bad, he would sell it and buy something else
but each move in the vinyl system has been an upgrade and he is not
interested in selling any pieces at this time.
vinyl is close to being max out.

the comment about this discussion being moot?
well that is always the case here on this discussion form
only because you can't all come and hear this comparison.

but, it is not moot if it just opens someones mind, and changes their preconceived notion based on audio BS. something
is learned, my intention and point is this, vinyl is no longer king of the hill(IMO) and diminishing returns should be considered.
I may downscale the vinyl medium, and with the cash get a 109 !

tuner is way more dynamic,
way more intimate (and that's shocking), and more flesh and body sounding, than a table could ever dream of.

those three elements are strong components to simulate live music IMHO. !!!

I am convinced that if a record or cd is playing from your CD player or TT, the radio stations same song will always sound better thru this 109 tuner.

I wish I knew why and how, but that is a fact and I am sticking with it !

until proven other wise, and if I hear something different
I will come back and report it and eat some crow.

peace brothers.

Dear Jimpcn: +++++ " but not as good as the tuner; but in areas that are most important to recreate live sound the tuner dose a better job; IMO " +++++

well everyone of us want and look for " recrete live sound ", there is no way this can/could happen because the best we can have is what is on the recording that was take it by the micros and then followed for many steps ( distortions/colorations ) till we have it through a LP.

+++++ " I am convinced that if a record or cd is playing from your CD player or TT, the radio stations same song will always sound better thru this 109 tuner. " +++++

" always sound better ", this is what you heard/hear and what you like and I respect that but I'm trying to figure/wonder why an audio signal ( FM/radio signal ) that pass through at least one-two additional stages ( maybe are 10 or more ) not only does not suffer any degradation ( and this is impossible ) but " suffer " an improvement!!!, how is that? how could happen? do you have a rational/objective explanation? because it does not make any sense, we are in 2009 year not in the 2081 one.

Btw, which audio system you own?, could share with us?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Jim: Well it seems to me ( IMHO of course ) that this time we don't learn or discover something " exciting " something that could change what we think/learned ( through the years ) about the analog experience on our home audio systems.

Btw, nice try.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Well sorry if raising this issue is nothing new, but it was an eye opener for me, and thought it would be interesting for others too.

You wanted to know what I'm listening for a stereo system,
no problem here goes, but Don't judge me on how deep my pockets are, but rather I call tell you i have building stereo systems for about thirty years and have alot of general audio experience.

My system is going thru a transition because I sold my house and am now in a smaller apartment.

Also I would like say, I build most of my stereo
components to save cash!
For example it my opinion finished speakers are the biggest
waist of cash, they are marked up big time.

I'm not so concerned with looks as sound, so I buy the best drivers available and connect to an electronic crossover
and anyone can compete with the very best for a song and a dance.
I do alot of dancing especially after visiting stereo salons or audio shows. :>)

my hunble system consists of
CD player- audiolab DCM8000 transport
Benchmark DAC

turntable-transrotor megnetic bearing Turntable
Shroder tonearm
Bluenote Boboli Special cartridge
Benz Lukaschek PP-1 Phono Preamp

Preamp Built by me but designed by an article in glass
audio, it was a stereo version so I doubled this
design to make a fully balanced vacuum tube
peamp. It uses a single 6080 triode tube but has
vacuum tube regulation and seems to be similar
in sound to something like Audio Research Ref.3
but without fancy enclosure or remote control :<(

Ampifiers; Three stereo amplifiers driving my three way
speaker system.
here is a big tip! for those who suffered me
this far.
Jeff Rowland uses class D modules like ice-modules if you heard of them and puts them in fancy enclosure and charges crazy money!
I found better modules and put together my own amplifiers
from a company in Europe called Hypex. They sell amplifier modules and power supplies that will render all Class A amplifiers obsolete in a few years. IMHO.
these amplifiers are incredible value.

If any one is thinking of buying a Mark levinson, Jeff Rowland or Krell, would be crazy because the reviews have
agreed that these modules sound similiar to accuphase classA amps but uses little power and run very kool.

Speakers; There again homemade, sorry
My house speakers were refridgerator size
double wall boxes that housed four 13 focal
woofers, tuned to 28 hz. four scanninng 2" domes
and a scanspeak
revelator tweeter in a MTM configuration.
Marchland 44 electronic crossover, 3-way.

All wires are the latest Cardas reference interconnects
and speaker wires, fully balanced.

My new apartment speakers will be a bit of a downsize but
believe I can save the same flavour using four 10" woofers
tuned to 28 hz. with a killer killer 10" volt midrange driver, and the scanspeak revelator tweeter.

Here another huge speaker tip!
For all you midfi guys looking to jump up to the big leagues

get a volt 10" midbass driver for midrange I believe model BM2500. Put it in a small sealed box just big enough to
physically insert the driver and add a scanspeak softdome
tweeter with capacitor for a 6 db crossover at 2000hz add
any subwoofer or bass boxes you like and you will be barking with the big dogs guaranteed!

the 10" Volt speaker is vary smooth so crossover doesnt need to be complex.
please us a softdome tweeter and leave those metal ribbon
things for keeping sandwiches fresh and not for music, ok.

This driver is very dynamic, transparent, very fast,depth thru your back walls, this ten inch driver uses the same magnet drive system as there 15 " woofer!!!
If you want to get really crazy buy two per channel and go
MTM and your done for life.

$100,000 speakers rarely use drivers of this quality
bloody shame.

Sorry for rambling, audio is my passion.