ZYX Universe, Dynavector XV-1s, vdH Colibri, ??


Last Sunday i finally took the time to compare three cartridges; my Dynavector XV-1s (.24mv output), a friends ZYX Universe (.24mv output) and my vdH Colibri (.85mv output) with the darTZeel preamp and phono stage in battery power.

Some background. in a post from my system thread i describe the path that brought me to be experimenting with various cartridges. that post also raves about listening to battery power with the darTZeel phono stage. i promised to compare the Dynavector and ZYX to the Colibri on battery power.

so that is what i did.

the darTZeel preamp has plenty of gain (62db in the phono stage and 20 db in the gain stage of the pre itself) so even with the relatively low output of the Dynavector and ZYX there are no gain issues at all, i only needed to go to about 2 o'clock on the volume attenuator for very high volume with the 95db efficient VR9 speakers. in battery mode the darTZeel phono stage is extremely quiet; so the normal advantage the Colibri has over other cartridges with lower gain is considerably reduced.

the darTZeel phono stage is set with 100ohm loading that seemed to work well with all the cartridges but is not ideal. i know that the Colibri likes about 400-500 ohms ideally; and from what i understand the Dynavector and ZYX both are ok (if not ideal) around 100 ohms.

the Dynavector is pretty new and only has maybe 30 hours on it; so it has not yet openned up completely. i am told the ZYX is fully broken in......and my Colibri is most definitly broken in.

i am very familiar with the setup parameters of the Colibri. i run it with the arm slightly down at the back, and track it at 1.45 grams as measured by my ALM-01 Winds Electronic Stylus Pressure Gauge. with the Rockport there is no anti-skate issues.

i ran the Dynavector XV-1s at 2.70 grams and slightly down in the rear of the arm.......and the ZYX Universe at 1.95 grams and the arm level.

i had played around previously with the Dynavector for my 30 hours and had had the Universe in the system for about a week prior to get it dialed in. so i had a reasonably good idea of setup on each cartridge.

the Rockport does make it easy to switch cartridges very quickly as all you need to do is change the counterweight to the proper one for the weight of that particular cartridge. then adjust the arm length for exact stylus position (there is a groove in the platter that you sight the stylus exactly inside for perfect position), rotate the arm for visual azimuth (i can get it very very close to perfect), and set your VTF. in practice about a 20 minute job if you already know the VTF you want.

so i was able to first listen to the Colibri, switch quickly to the Universe, listen again, then switch quickly to the XV-1s, and listen again.

before i get into what i heard on Sunday i want to describe my perceptions of how the Dynavector and ZYX compared when i the Universe first arrived from my friend. for reasons described in the previous post i had purchased the Dynavector as an alternative to my Colibri and it had been in my system for about 6 weeks. i had been using my Lamm LP2 Delux phono stage with the Placette passive RVC and Tenor 300 watt Hybrid monoblocks. i liked the Dynavector; compared to the Colibri it was less exciting, less on the edge, less vivid and immediate and less explosive......OTOH although it had a little color it was fairly neutral, always natural, very involving and had very good detail if not quite like the Colibri. more of my favorite music was enjoyable compared to the Colibri.

when i installed the ZYX Universe my first impression was of slightly less smoothness and naturalness compared to the Dynavector but more of the excitement of the Colibri. i played some of the Lps that had been on the edge with the Colibri and the ZYX was more natural and under control yet considerably more exciting than the Dynavector.

on the Lamm/Placette/Tenor my initial impressions were that these were simply two good cartridges that had different perspectives. as i listened more to the ZYX i could never really get fully involved into the music as i had felt with the Dynavector or especially the Colibri. why? i'm not exactly sure. it was like i wasn't hearing as far into the music as i liked. nothing was missing from the 'checklist' but i wasn't fulfilled.

the Lamm has 57.5 db of gain, has 400 ohm loading, and is extremely quiet. it has a very slight warmth, just to the dark side of neutral; but has a textural richness and refinement that i have not heard from any other phono stage (until dart battery power). it should be an ideal match for the ZYX.

so that was how it was before i tried battery power (as described in my previous post). i hope this makes sense up to this point.

now to the three cartridge comparison.

first the Colibri. the Colibri can be a 'train wreck'. it breaks all the rules. the barrel and canteliver are out of algnment with the cartridge 'body'......so setting asthimuth you ignore the body and just align the cateliver and stylus. i have owned 3 Colibris and they are all different yet all inconsistent. they can have any length canteliver a customer wants, gold windings, copper windings, wood bodies, polycarbonite bodies.......they have such little play in their suspensions that they can 'buzz' on certain edgy types of music. they are the Formula 1 cars of cartridges. the Colibri is so immediate, so explosive, yet so natural and so incisive that if all elsewhere is not about perfect.....you will know it and there will be a problem.

OTOH when all is right the Colibri is magnificent.

long story made short; with the battery powered dart phono stage in my system; the Dynavector and especially the ZYX are not nearly in the class of the Colibri. as the system improves, the lead of the Colibri gets larger.

i used tracks on 7 Lps for this comparison.

1.Muddy Waters 'Folk Singer', 'Good Morning School Girl', Classic reissue.

the Colibri here made the guitar plucks real and there. the whole musical sense was vivid and immediate. there was not a sense of the recording chain.....just some guys doing their thing. totally involving. each note dripped with reality. brilliant colors in the vocals and guitar overtones. ALIVE.

with the Universe it sounded great, nothing missing, satisfying. but; the guitar pluck was not as vivid, the colors were less vivid, there was overall a bit of haze that only compared to the Colibri was evidant. maybe no other cartridge would expose that issue. the decay of notes was reduced which reduced the overall involvement. sounded like a different pressing. NOT ALIVE.

on the Dynavector this was more different. less energy, less edge. transients were softened. smoother and warmer. very nice. a great sense of ease but too buttoned down for me. this track should boggie. excellent bloom and note decay.

2. The Royal Ballet, side one, Classic 33rpm reissue.

Colibri; spooky good. i don't want to stop. an 'oh my god' about every 30 seconds. i try to critically listen but it's hard.....i just want to close my eyes and forget about everything. about the best reproduced strings i have ever heard. such a sense of venue, the 'subway' and 'buses' outside seem real. where am i?

ZYX Universe; a different realm......reproduced music. very good.....but less of everything. very, very good. specifically, less separation of instruments, less delicacy
and less clarity. the effortlessness of the Colibri in sorting out the complex textures is missing.

Dynavector; not the detail or energy of the Colibri but very natural. slightly veiled but warm and inviting. not
wholey real but still much beauty. good flow and pulse of the music.

it's getting late; i will continue tomorrow morning or evening as time permits.

the Dynavector and ZYX are excellent cartridges that by themselves are rightly considered SOTA. just because i hear what i hear doesn't invalidate anyone else's perspectives.

so as not to attract too many flames i want to clearly state that i limit my comments to my specific system and setup choices. there are many varibles i have not or cannot address; arms, cartridge loading, breakin, taste, settleing in. i did not do the tiny tweaking of these cartridges that one does over time to dial them in just right. OTOH the differences that i heard are considerable and not subtle.

it just one guys opinion on one particular system on one particular day.

with that said; flame away.
mikelavigne
BTW-Doug,Raul,etc--Let's get off the topic,as I don't want to make this thread about my personal opinion,and observations,regarding my little audio "party"!.They,in reality,mean NOTHING!BTW-Doug,you,and the other fellow hobbyists DID hear the "Off"("OFF" as compared to the Graham preference,which is correct,and if you all liked it better,then that's OK with me,but I'd be willing to bet that it was never A/B'd,at that "party")setting.As I understood it,a "sort of celebrity" set-up person(and I'm sure a very nice,and capable person.I'm not trying to be smug) voiced it to his taste,and I doubt if I'd have objected to it, at the time,especially with so many people in attendance.This may still be the preference of the system owner,and it's HIS system,which will undergo a new arm soon,anyway,as I'm sure you know.That being the case,I have my own opinion,which is that the arm/cart was simply not set up to the max!If I didn't own it,and set up about three or four others,I'd have no opinion on the matter.To me,this is all "really good",as "analog" is a hands on learning process,which requires some fotzing around.Only you,or me,should ALWAYS rely on ourselves,not a dealer or mfgr(not that they don't have good intentions)to do the grunt work.I'm going to drop all of this as of now,anyway.I can hear the applause,in central Jersey!!

This thread was started by Mike L.,for the purpose of informing us about his observations.He must have spent a load of time,simply keyboarding the info. for our enjoyment.Obviously these things can take on a life of their own,but to me,we've "shot our load" on the subject.
I wish some of you "mavens" would try my "sure-fire" anti skating calibration. It's so easy (and yes Doug, as w/ VTA it gets you in the ballpark, but not all the way "there"), but it gets you very close.

First, as you probably all agree, it's useless to match the anti skate setting to the VTF, which is what most TA mfrs. recommend and how their dials are calibrated. This is due primarily to the differences among cartridges between suspension material (amount of deflection for different materials) and stylus shape (amount of friction in the groove.)

The object of applying AS force is to neutralize the "inward twisting force" of the tonearm toward the record center. This force is the product of a lever arm length -- the perpendicular distance between the centerline of the (offset) headshell and the horizontal tonearm pivot -- times the friction force of the stylus in the groove. BTW, the old time straight transcription tonearms (no offset) didn't have this problem, but of course suffered from more tracking error.

If you will (with zero AS) just watch the position of the cantilever (from the front, with lots of light please) as you lower the stylus into the groove, you will notice that it deflects toward the outside of the cartridge (because the tonearm is pulling inward in the opposite direction.)

As you apply more and more AS this movement will eventually stop. If you apply too much AS, the cantilever will deflect toward the inside of the cartridge. It takes a little observational practice, but not a hell of a lot. The result is a cartridge-specific AS setting which is amazingly accurate. I've tried to dial it in further by ear using a mono female soloist record (keep the preamp in 'stereo' setting) but usually I get it right by eye. I suppose you could do a little better with the oscilloscope technique, but I don't have one handy :~))

PS: Try this technique with (any?) vdH cartridge. vdH is one cartridge mfr. who is very specific about AS settings (and they're QUITE low compared to standard tonearm mfr. recs.) I found (and you will too) that the setting you wind up with (on the AS force dial if you have one) is precisely what vdH recommends.
SirSpeedy,
Good "bet" that AS wasn't AB'd at that party, since I already posted that! ;-)

As I said when thanking you for the suggestion, the Graham's AS may indeed have been off (or not). Nobody touched the owner's setting AFAIK, and I was there two full days before the "celebrity".

Nsgarch,

Excellent post. Lugnut, rest his soul, first mentioned that visual AS method to me. It's as easy as you described, takes all relevant factors into account and gives good results. Thanks for the common sense reminder.

Mikelavigne,

Apologies for blabbing about antiskate at a party hosted by a guy who doesn't even need it. What a lot of bores. Got any more munchies for us to chew on?



Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS"!!! " +++++

Yes, I'm and I don't quit because there is nothing that tell that I have to
quit about, let me to explain:

I already told you that your standards are diferent for mine ( that is
normal. different music experience, differents " ears ", different audio
system, etc, etc.. ). How I do a " serious " audio device evaluation:

- first, I make it alone with out any one in my audio system area.

- second, I play/heard the system by periods between one to two hours, no
more.

- third, I play/heard the system in at least 3 to 5 periods in two to three
days ( sometimes more, it depends of what I'm evaluating and if the audio
device is mine or borrowed from a dealer or a friend ) at different
times/hours.

Why periods of one to two hours?, well for any people is really hard to stay
in deep concentration for more time and other important issue is that after
that time our brain/ears are " equalized/accustom " to the sound of the
audio device and we can't be objectively about.
You have to give time to your ears/brain to " desintoxicate " .

- fourth, I don't drink any liquor during the evaluation periods ( this is
not an audio party and I don't think that you and your friends drink only
water for six hours on a row, but could be. )

With this evaluation ( there are more things about ) approach, six hours in
three periods could be considered " extensive " against six hours on a row
that could be considered ?: you name it.

Till today I already was in front of the ZYX cartridges in four different
times, in three of them I follow that listening approach. For those ZYX
owners I don't want to repeat or to post the other people post that agree
with my opinion about these cartridges: I always said that the ZYX are good
cartridge but that the ZYX are not excellent cartridges, not yet: when this
could happen I will be a proud owner of those future ZYX cartridges, that's
all.

Any experience audiophile can tell us in 10-15 minutes if what he is
listening is right, is wrong or so so, this I name " first impression " and
over the time the main issues on that " first impression " could be change
in a deep evaluation: in this deep/extensive evaluation we could know why
our first impression was a good one/wrong/so so,/etc, etc..

This is part of my standards. For an experienced people the first impression
is really important because if what we are hearing is wrong, this wrong
problem can't change over the time, over the time we could know why is wrong
that's all.

Now, Mike write this thread where he take more than a week to do his
cartridge evaluations in his own ( marvelous ) audio system where he knows
anything about the quality sound that comes for. The Colibri is his
cartridge standard, he had the ZYX for a week before he dial in and the
Dynavector for more than 30 hours. Well this is " extensive " against your
six hours on a row.

Now, why I take so serious this Mike's thread, well here we are talking of
almost " the best of the best " about cartridges ( well we need here at
least the Allaerts ) that have a jewelery price and we have a responsibility
with all the people on this forum that are looking for trusty information
not only a very " first impression ", at least this is my opinion. Yes I
know that for you the argument is over, like I already told you: good for
you, for me and for any one.

We are not losting here anything ( at least not me ), I think that all of us
learn many things about.

Great thread Mike.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.