ZYX Universe, Dynavector XV-1s, vdH Colibri, ??


Last Sunday i finally took the time to compare three cartridges; my Dynavector XV-1s (.24mv output), a friends ZYX Universe (.24mv output) and my vdH Colibri (.85mv output) with the darTZeel preamp and phono stage in battery power.

Some background. in a post from my system thread i describe the path that brought me to be experimenting with various cartridges. that post also raves about listening to battery power with the darTZeel phono stage. i promised to compare the Dynavector and ZYX to the Colibri on battery power.

so that is what i did.

the darTZeel preamp has plenty of gain (62db in the phono stage and 20 db in the gain stage of the pre itself) so even with the relatively low output of the Dynavector and ZYX there are no gain issues at all, i only needed to go to about 2 o'clock on the volume attenuator for very high volume with the 95db efficient VR9 speakers. in battery mode the darTZeel phono stage is extremely quiet; so the normal advantage the Colibri has over other cartridges with lower gain is considerably reduced.

the darTZeel phono stage is set with 100ohm loading that seemed to work well with all the cartridges but is not ideal. i know that the Colibri likes about 400-500 ohms ideally; and from what i understand the Dynavector and ZYX both are ok (if not ideal) around 100 ohms.

the Dynavector is pretty new and only has maybe 30 hours on it; so it has not yet openned up completely. i am told the ZYX is fully broken in......and my Colibri is most definitly broken in.

i am very familiar with the setup parameters of the Colibri. i run it with the arm slightly down at the back, and track it at 1.45 grams as measured by my ALM-01 Winds Electronic Stylus Pressure Gauge. with the Rockport there is no anti-skate issues.

i ran the Dynavector XV-1s at 2.70 grams and slightly down in the rear of the arm.......and the ZYX Universe at 1.95 grams and the arm level.

i had played around previously with the Dynavector for my 30 hours and had had the Universe in the system for about a week prior to get it dialed in. so i had a reasonably good idea of setup on each cartridge.

the Rockport does make it easy to switch cartridges very quickly as all you need to do is change the counterweight to the proper one for the weight of that particular cartridge. then adjust the arm length for exact stylus position (there is a groove in the platter that you sight the stylus exactly inside for perfect position), rotate the arm for visual azimuth (i can get it very very close to perfect), and set your VTF. in practice about a 20 minute job if you already know the VTF you want.

so i was able to first listen to the Colibri, switch quickly to the Universe, listen again, then switch quickly to the XV-1s, and listen again.

before i get into what i heard on Sunday i want to describe my perceptions of how the Dynavector and ZYX compared when i the Universe first arrived from my friend. for reasons described in the previous post i had purchased the Dynavector as an alternative to my Colibri and it had been in my system for about 6 weeks. i had been using my Lamm LP2 Delux phono stage with the Placette passive RVC and Tenor 300 watt Hybrid monoblocks. i liked the Dynavector; compared to the Colibri it was less exciting, less on the edge, less vivid and immediate and less explosive......OTOH although it had a little color it was fairly neutral, always natural, very involving and had very good detail if not quite like the Colibri. more of my favorite music was enjoyable compared to the Colibri.

when i installed the ZYX Universe my first impression was of slightly less smoothness and naturalness compared to the Dynavector but more of the excitement of the Colibri. i played some of the Lps that had been on the edge with the Colibri and the ZYX was more natural and under control yet considerably more exciting than the Dynavector.

on the Lamm/Placette/Tenor my initial impressions were that these were simply two good cartridges that had different perspectives. as i listened more to the ZYX i could never really get fully involved into the music as i had felt with the Dynavector or especially the Colibri. why? i'm not exactly sure. it was like i wasn't hearing as far into the music as i liked. nothing was missing from the 'checklist' but i wasn't fulfilled.

the Lamm has 57.5 db of gain, has 400 ohm loading, and is extremely quiet. it has a very slight warmth, just to the dark side of neutral; but has a textural richness and refinement that i have not heard from any other phono stage (until dart battery power). it should be an ideal match for the ZYX.

so that was how it was before i tried battery power (as described in my previous post). i hope this makes sense up to this point.

now to the three cartridge comparison.

first the Colibri. the Colibri can be a 'train wreck'. it breaks all the rules. the barrel and canteliver are out of algnment with the cartridge 'body'......so setting asthimuth you ignore the body and just align the cateliver and stylus. i have owned 3 Colibris and they are all different yet all inconsistent. they can have any length canteliver a customer wants, gold windings, copper windings, wood bodies, polycarbonite bodies.......they have such little play in their suspensions that they can 'buzz' on certain edgy types of music. they are the Formula 1 cars of cartridges. the Colibri is so immediate, so explosive, yet so natural and so incisive that if all elsewhere is not about perfect.....you will know it and there will be a problem.

OTOH when all is right the Colibri is magnificent.

long story made short; with the battery powered dart phono stage in my system; the Dynavector and especially the ZYX are not nearly in the class of the Colibri. as the system improves, the lead of the Colibri gets larger.

i used tracks on 7 Lps for this comparison.

1.Muddy Waters 'Folk Singer', 'Good Morning School Girl', Classic reissue.

the Colibri here made the guitar plucks real and there. the whole musical sense was vivid and immediate. there was not a sense of the recording chain.....just some guys doing their thing. totally involving. each note dripped with reality. brilliant colors in the vocals and guitar overtones. ALIVE.

with the Universe it sounded great, nothing missing, satisfying. but; the guitar pluck was not as vivid, the colors were less vivid, there was overall a bit of haze that only compared to the Colibri was evidant. maybe no other cartridge would expose that issue. the decay of notes was reduced which reduced the overall involvement. sounded like a different pressing. NOT ALIVE.

on the Dynavector this was more different. less energy, less edge. transients were softened. smoother and warmer. very nice. a great sense of ease but too buttoned down for me. this track should boggie. excellent bloom and note decay.

2. The Royal Ballet, side one, Classic 33rpm reissue.

Colibri; spooky good. i don't want to stop. an 'oh my god' about every 30 seconds. i try to critically listen but it's hard.....i just want to close my eyes and forget about everything. about the best reproduced strings i have ever heard. such a sense of venue, the 'subway' and 'buses' outside seem real. where am i?

ZYX Universe; a different realm......reproduced music. very good.....but less of everything. very, very good. specifically, less separation of instruments, less delicacy
and less clarity. the effortlessness of the Colibri in sorting out the complex textures is missing.

Dynavector; not the detail or energy of the Colibri but very natural. slightly veiled but warm and inviting. not
wholey real but still much beauty. good flow and pulse of the music.

it's getting late; i will continue tomorrow morning or evening as time permits.

the Dynavector and ZYX are excellent cartridges that by themselves are rightly considered SOTA. just because i hear what i hear doesn't invalidate anyone else's perspectives.

so as not to attract too many flames i want to clearly state that i limit my comments to my specific system and setup choices. there are many varibles i have not or cannot address; arms, cartridge loading, breakin, taste, settleing in. i did not do the tiny tweaking of these cartridges that one does over time to dial them in just right. OTOH the differences that i heard are considerable and not subtle.

it just one guys opinion on one particular system on one particular day.

with that said; flame away.
mikelavigne

Showing 13 responses by dougdeacon

Mike,

Thanks for the thorough comparison. One question: do you know which UNIverse your friend has that you were listening to?

- coils: copper, silver or gold?
- optional headhsell weight: silver, gold or none?

Thanks,
Doug
SirSpeedy,

That Positive Feedback comparison was made using a silver-coiled ZYX. (He didn't specify so I inquired.) Unfortunately this reduces the value of his effort.

Vetterone, Cello and I all reported here - weeks ago - that the silver coiled UNIverse rolls off leading edge transients and slurs microdynamics, exactly what the PF reviewer heard. If he wanted a fast, fully dynamic and neutral sounding ZYX he should reviewed the copper coiled UNIverse. That would have been a more interesting and useful comparison.

I'm actually hoping MikeLavigne also heard a silver coiled UNIverse. Otherwise I may have to go buy a Colibri! That's why I asked. My bank account awaits his answer with some interest.

Cheers,
Doug
Mike,

Thanks for the thorough followups. The photo of your Colibris makes your analogy to a race car seem very apt. All business, no nonessential parts, a purist's machine indeed. Assuming good components and execution, and given proper setup and playing conditions, it truly ought to offer unmatched dynamics and transparency.

Continuing the car analogy, the ZYX and Miyabi seem more like world class sports cars. A top Ferrari or Porsche will outperform almost anything on the street, but on a racetrack they'd have no chance against a F1 race car.

Of course the reverse is also true, as you wisely pointed out. A F1 race car would be literally undriveable on some real-world roads. A short-cantilevered cartridge with nude, low-slung coils could indeed have a problem navigating warps. Center clamps and weights do nothing for pinch warps, nor can they flatten the LP rim when playing the concave side of many dish warps. Vacuum or (perhaps) a periphery clamp might be required to make certain records playable with such a cartridge.

I'm looking forward to your detailed performance notes. Many thanks again for taking the time.
Doug,if the silver coiled UNIV is not a top performer,and significantly bettered by the copper coiled one,I wonder why it is sold,especially at these prices.Though,in this hobby,nothing really surprises me anymore.
Good question, SirSpeedy, and one which I asked Mehran after we auditioned it.

He keeps it because people who choose it, like it! Some people prefer a "nice" sound to a more lifelike and present one. Analog newbies coming from RBCD are especially prone to this, since they understandably (though wrongly) believe that a system must provide a bit of smoothing to be listenable.

Ohers may be unwilling to adjust SRA for each record to maintain, "top end openness and air balanced by keeping on the natural side of any edge", as Mike so aptly put it. The silver is more tolerant of SRA mis-adjustment, it's quite difficult to make it go edgy.

And of course a few may be using a slightly rounded-off cartridge to mask problems elsewhere in their system.

Maybe those aren't good purist reasons, but they're mostly good business ones. Nobody's forced to buy the silver. I suggested to Mehran that he describe the copper and silver sounds just as we heard them, then let the customer decide.
Speedy, the proselytizing of the ZYX evangelistas here on AgoN notwithstanding, I know none of them have compared their Unies with Trannies, and conversely, no Tranny V or W owners I know of have had the opportunity to compare them with the ZYX Universe.

Arthur Salvatore has compared his Transfiguration Temper with the ZYX R100 Fuji and Airy 2. FWIW, he placed the Fuji somewhat above the Temper and the Airy 2 well above that.

Of course I'm also eager to learn what SirSpeedy hears. Of course unless he knows that system well and/or A/B's a Transfiguration at the same time, it may be difficult for him to evaluate the experience. Knowing whether to credit (or blame) the cartridge, the tonearm, the table, the phono stage or something else in an unfamiliar system can be almost impossible.
Apparently Arthur's been raiding someone's file cabinet. I'm calling the police. We evangelistas are not to be trifled with!

Actually he's the one who first got us to try a ZYX. Our ears confirmed what he reported at the R100 Fuji - Shelter 901 level. Since then we've just moved up the ladder faster. Dodging those weekly hurricanes must be slowing him down.

Our real problem here is that most Tranny V/W AND UNIverse owners are enjoying the music too much to try something else. Clearly this problem must be addressed, so I will generously step aside and allow SirSpeedy to take the cure first.

SirSpeedy,
Dismount that thing and bring it up to me. We're only two hours apart, the withdrawal symptoms won't last long. I'll let you go home with whichever cartridge I think you should keep, 'cause that's just the kind of guy I am!
SirSpeedy,

Thanks for the report on your session with the UNIverse. Those were very perceptive observations you made about the sounds with different antiskate settings. That is exactly what we hear in our system too. Like you, we prefer the fuller detail and richer natural harmonics that come with minimal AS settings.

FWIW, our UNIverse performs best at around 2.02-2.04g (in the winter). If I push VTF much higher I start to lose the highs. As you said, those not accustomed to clean, extended HF response and/or those with system or room problems might prefer a "squashed" sound, but when all is right having the fullest possible response provides the most lifelike reproduction.

Cheers,
Doug

P.S. I don't remember the AS setting on Cello's 2.2, nor do I remember listening for AS differences like we did for damping, VTF and VTA. I agree AS can have a significant impact on sonics. On our rig setting AS even a little too high muddies the sound pretty quickly. If the 2.2 reacts similarly then you may have just helped Cello out. Is there any AS setting methodology unique to that arm that you could share for his benefit?
SirSpeedy,
Thanks for the insight on the 2.2's antiskate. I hope/presume Cello had it set per Graham's instructions, but I didn't check it myself. Hopefully he'll spot this and double check.

I agree there's no substitute for understanding and adjusting your own gear. The other day our system was sounding a bit stale. After fiddling with the rig for half an hour it finally occured to me to check the power amp. I hadn't biased it for a while and it was running too low. It's always something, you just have to find it.

Doug

P.S. Welcome to Raul's, "You're not perfect enough for me" club. Come join the fun. We may not be serious, but at least we're all partyin' together!
SirSpeedy,
Good "bet" that AS wasn't AB'd at that party, since I already posted that! ;-)

As I said when thanking you for the suggestion, the Graham's AS may indeed have been off (or not). Nobody touched the owner's setting AFAIK, and I was there two full days before the "celebrity".

Nsgarch,

Excellent post. Lugnut, rest his soul, first mentioned that visual AS method to me. It's as easy as you described, takes all relevant factors into account and gives good results. Thanks for the common sense reminder.

Mikelavigne,

Apologies for blabbing about antiskate at a party hosted by a guy who doesn't even need it. What a lot of bores. Got any more munchies for us to chew on?

SirSpeedy,

Perhaps there's some synergy between a Graham 2.2 and a Transfiguration that doesn't occur with other cartridges. I have no way of judging that. (Good diplomats always leave the other side a face-saving exit.)

But the plain truth is that Larry's Graham could not match the transparency of any Schroeder or the microdynamics of a TriPlanar VII. The worst possible mis-adjustment of anti-skating could not account for the performance margin agreed to by everyone who actually heard them side by side.

We did not like it with a Koetsu,
We did not like it with a ZYX,
We did not like it SirSpeedy man,
We did not like that stodgy Graham.

Even my father's 72-year-old, non-audiophile ears heard the difference. As soon as we lifted the TriPlanar and dropped the Graham his toes stopped tapping, his head stopped bobbing and his eyelids drooped. (It was past his bedtime, but it took the Graham to remind him!)

For heaven's sake, face reality. Just because a component sucks doesn't make the owner a bad person. I used to own Bose 901's, okay?
Raul,
Excellent summary. Thanks for being a good "referee"! :-)

SirSpeedy,
Whoever told you the fluid dampening was not done for our arm comparison last March was mis-remembering.

Paul and I visited Larry in November, 2004. We went for two specific purposes:

1. To let him audition the Airy 2, Airy 3 and UNIverse.

2. To help him adjust the blue fluid, which we did for each cartridge following your excellent instructions.

When we left after four long days of work his Graham's damping was optimized for a UNIverse. That was four months BEFORE the arm comparison.
Ouch! Glad to hear Mehran took care of you, though like the others I'm not in the least surprised. It takes all kinds to make a world, but we could use more of his.
Shame on you Neil, for not predicting Arthur's results two years in advance! ;-)