Oscar Peterson vs. Art Tatum


Mosaic recently released a compilation of CDs entitled The Classic Oscar Peterson Trio Studio Sessions With Ray Brown and Ed Thigpen.  In the opening notes Bob Blumenthal correctly writes that Peterson had "technique and harmonic fluidity to rival Art Tatum" and yet that fact has troubled me for years.  Everything the trio played was well rehearsed.  Nothing was left to chance.  Anyone who ever went to hear the group live commented on how they played the same tunes, the same riffs, same everything night after night.  This was a well staged act.  I heard Stanley Turrentine in Chicago years ago and he covered some Coltrane things.  It was uncanny and when I spoke with him he said "Oh yes, once someone shows me how to play a piece, I can play just about anything.  The difference is that John can stand up there and think that shit up as he goes along.  The difference between true genius and the rest of us mere mortals."  And that is the difference between Oscar Peterson and Art Tatum.  Don't get me wrong, Peterson is terrific and this set is well worth hearing.  In my youth I wanted to be a drummer and learned to play brushes from Ed Thigpen.  Wonderful stuff.  Truly.  Just keep it all in perspective.  With total respect for everyone involved including Bob Blumenthal, who I grew up reading while I was a student at Berklee, when it comes to INVENTIVENESS, harmonic and otherwise, there is Art Tatum without equal.  Oscar Peterson definitely had the chops, but he could not think that shit up as he went along.  It has only taken me 60 years to figure this out, but then I am also a mere mortal.

billstevenson

I read something recently, don’t remember where, about various Miles Davis groups over the 50s...the article mentioned that Miles didn’t care for Oscar Peterson due to his inability to improvise. He said that Oscar was derivative and played with well worn tricks and techniques, but no improvisation.  ..and with Miles, if you can’t improvise..well..next. 

That said, I have many albums by Miles, Oscar, & Art and love them all. I’m currently on somewhat of a Red Garland binge..we probably know what Miles thought of Red.  Previous to my Red binge, I was on somewhat of a Gene Harris binge..so much great music 

@nogaps 

+1 😊

I recently bought some jazz cd sets on eBay. Most are 8 full albums on 4 discs. Miles, Oscar, Train, Chet, the greats. 13 sets in all. It cost about $2.10 per album. I’m just diving into the Bill Evans set. 12 albums on 6 discs. All great recordings so far too. I’m in heaven. Unfortunately, no Art Tatum offered that I have found yet. As nogaps said, so much music. 

Being a longtime professional pianist, I find this discussion a bit silly. Art Tatum and Oscar were great pianists in different eras with different styles. To imply that Oscar wasn’t the incredible improviser and just played well rehearsed lines is absolutely ludicrous!! Please watch Dick Cavett’s interview with Oscar where he instantly demonstrates different playing styles on the spot brilliantly. This was not rehearsed!! This is widely regarded as the greatest interview of a musician ever! Along with Bill Evans and disciples like Brad Meldhau, please listen to the sophisticated genius of Bill Charlap. A superb touch like a great classical pianist, combined with incredible harmonic voice leading and technical dexterity, always underplayed. Never a wasted note. Whose favorite pianists are favorites in different eras is a very subjective debate. Please don’t try to explain to us who was better than Oscar!! He was truly amazing technically but always played with swing and rhythmic soul. 

I love Oscar, and have no Tatum in my vinyl. Will look for some. My fav is Evans.

There is a great box set by MPS of Oscar's vinyl that he recorded at H G BS' studio. 

Other pianists I really enjoy are: Gene Harris, Sonny Clark, Michel Petrucciani, Monty Alexander, Caelen Cardello, Emmett Cohen.

just in the middle of a great Bio on Evans by Peter Pettinger. Pettinger is a classical pianist, so he can get into the weeds on how Evans played, which is way over my head. It has an excellent discography at the back.

Great post. Thank you

@timstella I am sorry you feel that the conversation is silly.  It is not one bit silly.  I watched the Dick Cavett interview when it happened.  I have every record Oscar Peterson ever made, many in duplicate as well as every Tatum recording that I can find, although there are many that were never offered publicly so the search never ends.  I also saw Peterson live several times.  Personally studied with Ed Thigpen.  Please don't dismiss this conversation as silly.  You can certainly disagree with it, that is your prerogative.  I suggest a more meaningful reality check for you.  Jim Wilke is still alive I believe, and he recorded the Oscar Peterson Trio in Seattle circa 1958.  Since you are sceptical of my assertion that the group played the same tunes in the same way, used the same breaks, the same same, even smiled and laughed at the same riffs every time, every night, ask Jim.  Many people have commented on this over the years.  I personally saw this myself more than once, in LA, in Toronto, in Hartford.  You don't have to believe me, but the group was a well oiled machine, well rehearsed.  Moreso even than Ellington, who also was criticized for doing the same thing.  Moreso even than MJQ, ditto.  With all that said, I love the music and believe it has tremendous merit.  Improvisation is only one element in the amalgam that makes up the complexity of things that we call jazz music.  Every recognizable tune is obviously a compendium of repeatable parts after all.  So we need to accept all of what we hear for what it is and not reject any part of it on an intellectual basis because of personal bias.