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Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
chrisoshea
607 posts
 

Ok Richard….Try King Crimson’s Larks Tongues in Aspic….The entire album but especially The Talking Drum….

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,476 posts
 

@chrisoshea

Try King Crimson’s Larks Tongues in Aspic

Thanks - I did!

I guess you and I probably pronounce Aspic differently laugh.  But I liked the visions The Talking Drum conjured of the belly dancers fighting in From Russia with Love.

In turn, could I encourage you to dip into Mahler's second symphony - just the last half of the last movement, where after a huge crescendo, the choir comes in at a murmur building towards a massive finale.  When I write about the dynamic range of classical music, I don't mean the signal to noise ratio.  I mean the difference between the sound envelope of the quietest and loudest passages.  And in Mahler some of the musicians are literally off-stage, playing in the passageways!

Mahler’s contributions to music, especially symphonic music, are astounding. The expansion of symphonic forces is one of the most important legacies the composer left. His Second Symphony calls for a massive orchestra consisting of 4 flutes (all doubling on piccolo); 4 oboes (3rd and 4th doubling on English horn); 5 clarinets including the use of Bb, A, C, bass, and 2 Eb clarinets; 4 bassoons (3rd and 4th doubling on contrabassoon); 10 French horns; 8-10 trumpets; 4 trombones; tuba; 7 timpani to be played by three players; an extended percussion section requiring a total of seven players; two off-stage brass and percussion ensembles; organ; strings (the score indicates “the largest possible contingent of strings”); 2 harps; soprano soloist; mezzo-soprano soloist; and a mixed choir.

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,476 posts
 

@chrisoshea 

Sorry about the potential confusion.  I am going with the EBU version, according to Dynamic range - Wikipedia

The term dynamic range may be confusing in audio production because it has two conflicting definitions, particularly in the understanding of the loudness war phenomenon.[32][33] Dynamic range may refer to micro-dynamics,[34][35][36] related to crest factor,[37][38] whereas the European Broadcasting Union, in EBU3342 Loudness Range, defines dynamic range as the difference between the quietest and loudest volume, a matter of macro-dynamics.[32][33][39][40][41][42]

chrisoshea
607 posts
 

Thanks Richard…Yes I was thinking about the difference between the soft and loud passages of music. And yes I am familiar with  and love Mahler No.2

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,433 posts
 

If we move away from bearing issues, there is another microscopic vibration generator sitting right at the critical point in the groove - the stylus. Some of the 'unwanted' soundwaves it generates travel in the vinyl, others pass into the cartridge body.  The stylus re-amplifies these waves microphonically, which for some listeners may create pleasing distortions. On the other hand, they must reduce the fidelity of the reproduced signal.

@richardbrand This is why the platter pad is so critical. IMO its more important than the cartridge.

The dishwasher-like background noise persists continuously right through the gap.  This makes me suspect the mastering lathe rather than the hall acoustics because I would expect the master tape to have audibly stopped and restarted in the gap.  By the way, that dishwasher-like noise gets worse as playback gets further into the record.

It unlikely to be an artifact of the mastering! Its far more likely to be an artifact of the pressing plant. There's not really a mechanism for the mastering lathe to impose an artifact like that...

 

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