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AVP 2CH to dedicated 2CH....how big of difference?

Hey all, long time lurker.

Currently I have a Marantz AV 10 paired with a Marantz AMP 10 that I use for HT and multi-channel music.  LR are GoldenEar Triton Reference speakers.  Also have (2) HSU VTF-15H mk2 subs.   Room is treated...its not perfect but Ive spent quite a bit of time in this area.

 

Lately, I have really been doing a lot of 2CH listening. Sources are SACD/CD from an Oppo 205, Tidal via HEOS and a VPI Scoutmaster w/ Soundsmith Zephyr Star MIMC cart and  Lehman Black Cube SEII phono stage.

Music preferences are literally all over the map.  (Rock, jazz, blues, classical, etc.)  

 

My question is, how much of a change am I going to get if I setup a dedicated 2CH stack? 

 

I know the GoldenEar TRefs can be a polarizing speaker, but I actually enjoy them and would like to continue using them with a 2CH setup.  If I had a budget of about 20K to dedicate to 2CH....how much of a difference am I going to experience by moving away from the AV10/AMP10 combo?  Are we talking diminishing returns levels or 'omg, Im hearing music for the first time' levels?

 

What I currently like about the AV10/AMP10 combo with Dirac ART.  Background is totally black.  Dead silent.  Excellent imaging both in sound stage width and depth.  In certain music, it throws a very wide soundstage...almost Q Sound-like. And I know from a purity standpoint this is frowned upon, but I do like Dirac ART or some kind of RC.

Where I want to see improvements.  On heavily dense tracks with a lot of instruments/layers, the sound stage can get very narrow.  It doesn't collapse but I lose a lot of imaging. Two examples of this I can think of immediately are Comfortably Numb on the Pulse album.  At the end with the crescendo and guitar solo...it can get congested and narrows.  Same with November Rain Remastered.  The beginning of that track is well layered side to side and front to back but at the end with everything hitting at once, I almost completely lose that image that I had throughout the first 3/4 of the track.

There is also a slight 'edge' to music.  While this is excellent for movies (clear, distinct sounds) this can make music sound more clinical vs smooth and warm.  I dont know if this is because its really an AV product and Im trying to do something outside of its wheelhouse, the ICEPower Class D crispness from the AMP10 or the revealing nature of the GE TRefs or a combo of all three.

Im ready to take the next step and dedicate some time/resources to 2CH.  I just don't want to spend a ton of money and get a marginally better experience.  Unfortunately, I live in an area where demoing most of the gear Ive been looking at is going to require some travel.  I don't have anything remotely local.

Budget would be going primarily to a preamp/amp or integrated and probably a different SACD/CD source for the Oppo 205.

Apologies for the length of the post, just trying to provide as much information as possible.  

quick2k3
mahler123
4,038 posts
 

I am a Multichannel enthusiast.  My main system is a 2 channel but I have MC in my basement and living room.  I don’t have your equipment but I have had Marantz gear in the past and they do have a “house sound”.

  I lately have realized that when I play a 2 channel digital recording in the MC systems the result can be very unsatisfying, compared to a MC mix of the same recordings.  Now, the equipment in the MC systems is decidedly “mid-fi” compared to my 2 channel system , but in multi channel they can sound really impressive.  The two channel recordings by comparison are somewhat lifeless.

  YMMV, of course, and no one can really say what your impression will be.  I was considering doing a HT bypass for my main MC system to improve the two channel recordings, but I wound up selling of the amp that I would have used.  

  

mgrif104
569 posts
 

OP you pose a very good question. I think the answer will be “it depends”. Though I’ve never had a high performance multi channel system, I have had upper level Marantz gear that I ran 2.1. I have also heard Dirac in some systems. My views/preferences may be entirely different than yours - so YMMV. 

Re Dirac - In my limited experience, I have heard the presence of the DSP on the signal. It didn’t sound transparent to me - but somewhat artificial.  Of course, it’s highly likely I’ve never heard it set up properly and  I don’t dispute the benefits of DSP in correcting some room issues.  But you have a treated room already.

Re Marantz gear - it definitely had/has a house sound and I found my upper end AV to sound harsh to my ears. I replaced it with PS Audio Stellar series gear (long gone as that was several system iterations ago so I’m working from memory here) but I remember it being a noticeable improvement in quality and clarity to me. As a second data point, I replaced a different Marantz A/V receiver in a simple 2.0 TV system with a nearly bottom of the line Hegel A/V receiver and it brought a surprising improvement in musicality and intelligibility. 

My suspicion is that upgrading your electronics to a higher performing dedicated 2 ch gear will bring improvements in clarity, musicality and spatial information (hall ambiance, imaging, etc.). It may not be earth shattering improvements and you may not like the results as much with the loss of Dirac, but given your room treatments, it’s absolutely worth finding a dealer who will let you audition the gear at home in your room with your speakers (which are quite nice BTW). 

And, I could be completely wrong and you find it isn’t worth the spend in $. But I firmly believe it worth the spend in time to find out. 

Best,

ricred1
2,147 posts
 

I submit you can have both by using a 2-channel preamp with HT bypass. I've tried to put together a decent HT system, but sold it to focus on my 2-channel. I had a Trinnov Altitude and Amplitude 16. I tried them for 2-channel only, but strongly preferred my Rowland components compared to Trinnov.

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