What does "Warm" mean?


In his post today Paul McGowan ([email protected]) had a pretty good post on the subject of warmth.  Here is his definition: "The word usually points at a few related things. There's a slight rise in the lower midrange and upper bass — the region where male voices, cellos, lower piano notes, and the body of most instruments live. There's a softness at the very top, a rounding off of transient energy that feels easier on the ear over long sessions. And there's a sense of weight and body in the music, a presence that makes acoustic instruments feel three-dimensional rather than etched in air. When all three of those things show up together, listeners reach for "warm" because nothing else describes it as quickly."

Paul then goes on to discuss both the good and the bad of this set of characteristics.  In general I associate warmth with harmonic distortion, but prefer it to the stridency or harshness that I associate with intermodular distortion.  I think most people would agree.  Since we all live with a certain amount of distortion, more in analog than in digital playback, I wonder what others think about warmth, or lack of same, and their tolerance or lack of same in their own listening preferences. 

billstevenson

Raul,

I am not telling you anything you don't already know.  Often musicians make terrible audiophiles.  For one thing, sitting in section frequently results in hearing loss.  I was a drummer.  Drums are loud.  What saved me was I always used ear plugs.  So, my hearing is pretty good for a 78 year old man.  I just had it tested a couple of months ago in fact and it is pretty flat up to 12 kHz and down to about 25 Hz.  The doctor repeated the tests twice because he couldn't believe a man my age could hear that well.  Besides the drummer thing, I became an engineer and was exposed to loud noise for decades.  Good genes and ear plugs, which I used fastidiously account for this I believe. 

Anyway, back to your claim of no such thing as warm in the front row.  Well, we all hear differently.  Let me explain myself like this.  If I use calf skin heads on my drums, the tone is warmer than if I use Mylar heads.  You might not hear that difference in the front row, I don't know.  If you have any records with Mel Lewis on drums, you can hear a good drummer playing on calf skin heads.  For comparison, listen to Joe Morello, a good drummer who always preferred mylar heads.  I can hear these differences.  Can you? 

For another example, as a drummer who played a lot of duo/trio with piano, I have always been sensitive to the tonality of different pianos. There are a lot of examples of Steinways, which is a neutral sounding instrument.  Yamaha pianos are too.  By contrast, listen to Oscar Peterson, who in his last years played a Bosendorfer.  His piano had a warmer tonality.  It also had an extra set of notes on the left side so it went deeper than a standard piano.   If you have any of his recordings entitled "Exclusively For My Friends" you can hear him playing a Bosendorfer.   I hope you can find some of these examples among your own record collection.  You might then hear the tonality that I am referring to as warmer. 

With respect to my description of the difference between my Technics SL1200GAE and my Denon DP-3000NE, there is a definite distinction in the sound of the two.  Using identical cartridges (AT ART20, and AT LM60xSL), identical head shells (I have tried both the Denon and the Technics), identical phono leads, identical phono stage (PS Audio Stella).  No SUT. I even used the same mat (I tried three: OEM Denon, OEM Technics, and Origin Stratos).  For analytical detail, the Technics is better, but for just listening for relaxation, the Denon has a softer, warmer sound that I prefer, especially for Baroque and Early Music in general.  Using AnalogMagik, the measurable difference between the two such as speed, wow & flutter and so forth are negligible.  All of this I find more than a little surprising.    

I have yet to experience a ‘warm’ system with full dynamics representing cymbals and percussion with their full oooomph. The opposite of warm isn’t cold but harsh and that isn’t desirable either.

@billstevenson 

Thanks for this. It sums up all there is to this discussion: a good systems simply makes differences in aural timbre and dynamics audible; adding or subtracting from that is simply undesirable! So neutral is the target, neither warm, cold or any other aberration. It’s the music that matters, not the sound

@pryso 

is this it?

 

from AI

"Bob Fulton, the late founder of Fulton Musical Industries, created a specific color-coded chart that assigned a different color to each instrument in a full orchestra to illustrate the sonic characteristics of his speakers. 

This chart was not widely published; it was reportedly seen by enthusiasts at Mission Bay Audio, a Fulton dealer in San Diego, during the late 1970s when Fulton speakers were popular among high-end audio reviewers like J. Gordon Holt

While the specific visual chart is no longer readily available online, the concept is referenced in vintage audio forums (such as Audio Asylum) as a method to visualize the frequency response and tonal balance of Fulton’s electrostatic and dynamic speaker systems."

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more on this page

https://www.flutopedia.com/sound_color.htm

 

When we had tone controls, 'warm' and 'bright' were easily defined by what you did with the bass and treble knobs.

No one agrees on which is the best loudspeaker.  But most everyone agrees the second best is the LS3/5a.

That made me laugh. Possibly true, but unprovable. As when I lived near the "second most photographed site" in Nova Scotia.