1. Home
  2. analog
  3. 198521-196045

Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,362 posts
 

@thecarpathian 

Kettle drums?

Certainly an important source of low frequencies, to compete with extrinsic rumble!

The Mahler 2 'Resurrection' record has eight of them, plus a bass drum, plus gong, plus organ, plus a huge choir.  I know, I was there laugh

Mahler, I believe, instructs the gong player to hit the gong as hard as possible.  When I went to a performance of the same symphony in Melbourne, in the finale the gong swung up to horizontal, but never made it back to vertical before being struck again.angry

Yet five minutes earlier, the only sound is a soft murmur from the male choir (46 basses alone in the Sydney performance) underpinning a solo mezzo-soprano, also singing very softly.

DG makes it easy to cue this spot - they have thoughtfully split the final movement between record sides no.  On both the Garrard and the Holbo, I hear the same faint swishing Miele dishwasher noise in the really quiet bits.  I don't hear platter rumble - whatever there might be is beaten by the dishwasher.

The DG record set comes from a live performance with 2,500 people breathing, and is not a top quality pressing in my view.  So I popped my alpha recording of Mahler 7, which has an incredibly quiet background, on to the Garrard.  Mahler 7, 4th movement, has almost as much dynamic range, from solo mandolin to full orchestra.  I could hear almost no rumble from any source.  Note that I have replaced the main bearing, plus the idler wheel and its bearings.

Finally I put the Mahler 7 back on the Holbo.  I could not hear any rumble even in the very quiet bits, and standing a foot from a speaker.

Time to put a kettle on before putting my vinyl away for a few weeks as i head back to Sydney

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
7,822 posts
 

Time to put a kettle on before putting my vinyl away for a few weeks as i head back to Sydney
 

put that kettle on the acrylic mat. Use it as a coaster to protect your kitchen countertop. :)

Have you tried playing a record without mat yet @richardbrand ?

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
7,822 posts
 

@richardbrand 

This further solidifies my point…from stereonet review of the holbo mk2…

The deck is intended to be used without a platter mat, although you could always experiment here. Any mat you try needs to be pretty thin, as the centre spindle (made from Delrin) is relatively short and stubby at only about 8mm in length. The deck comes supplied with a reasonably heavy record puck.
 

https://www.stereonet.com/reviews/holbo-mk-ii-airbearing-turntable-review

and from soundstage Australia…

The bearing’s centre pin is made of POM thermoplastic and “hard steel”. Holbo provides a logo-emblazoned, rather weighty and nicely machined stainless steel pop-on puck, or weight, which will pressure-flatten the disc onto the platter.

https://www.soundstageaustralia.com/index.php/reviews/652-holbo-airbearing-turntable-system-mk2

As I mentioned above, the mat isn’t needed. The only result you will accomplish is the uneven surface of the mat along with any other imperfections will prevent the puck from coupling and flattening the record on the platter. 
 

My VPI table comes with a mat and the manual states it is to be used as dust cover. The VPI table includes a heavy screw on record clamp. At this point I’m 100% certain the rumble will be completely eliminated following the removal of the mat, irrespective of its material. 

faustuss's avatar
faustuss
790 posts
 

@richardbrand 

"Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?"

Your turntables!

dwette
529 posts
 

I have 5000+ LPs, about half of them classical recordings, from the 50s to modern day. I’ve never heard any amount of rumble distortion on any of them, and with a REL S/510 six-pack of subs I would certainly notice if it was a problem.

I agree with others that say it's rooted in the turntable.

More to discover