VPI non-Anti Skate Q


I'm sure this Q has been discussed before, but I haven't seen an answer.


I see most brands using Anti Skate as protection from damage to both LP and stylus. VPI is the only brand I see not using it, as they have a different approach that their arms naturally provide anti-skate force.


My Q for VPI Signature 21 using Fatboy Gimbal 10-3D Tonearm: would not using anti-skating be perfectly safe for stylus and LP, same as to other brands who use anti-skate?

Thanks a lot!

mard

Well opinions notwithstanding, let me interject a few facts.  I use a computer program called AnalogMagik to set up turntables.  It is a distortion analyzer program that measures distortion as I adjust each of the various aspects of both  cartridge and turntable.  Any and all adjustments can affect the others so the process involves quite a bit of back and forth to try and get the best balance that minimizes distortion as much as possible across all of the various factors.  That explains why no one adjustment should be considered more or less difficult or important than any other.  Anyhow, to your question concerning Antiskating specifically as it relates to VPI tonearms, it has been my experience and observation that generally they are often optimally served with very little to no antiskating.  I have decided to leave Antiskating force off on my own Fatboy equipped HW-40.  I do have a VPI prototype tonearm in development as this is written that looks terrific and that I expect to receive shortly.  It might be a different story, but that is something for the future.  AnalogMagik suggests that for tonearms 12" and longer AS is not required.  Since most VPI tonearms are at least 10", that might be explanatory in part for their recommendation.   Anyway, that answers the VPI question and you can stop reading.  For arms from other manufacturers the answer for Antiskate settings is not universal.  For SME arms, I find the factory settings are accurate and should be used.  For Technics, Antiskate settings seem to result in lowest distortion set at ~50% of recommended settings.  On a Denon DP-3000NE, that I just acquired, the factory settings proved to be accurate.  For most TTs from the EU, I am finding it best to start at 50% of recommended setting and increase only if you hear a slight mis-tracking in the upper mids to highs. My general advice is that while a small amount of AS is good, too much is worse than none at all.  So use a light touch.  Those are facts, based on AnalogMagik, measurements and careful listening during set up and a number of TTs, not opinions. 

@billstevenson 

I know I don’t know how to write a paragraph, certainly don’t understand when to break a long one like yours, however, I respectfully suggest at least separating your nice summation from the rest

I always think, when going back trying to find something I read (or wrote), how easy is it to find?

billstevenson

1,137 posts

 

"Well opinions notwithstanding, let me interject a few facts.  I use a computer program called AnalogMagik to set up turntables.  It is a distortion analyzer program that measures distortion as I adjust each of the various aspects of both  cartridge and turntable.  Any and all adjustments can affect the others so the process involves quite a bit of back and forth to try and get the best balance that minimizes distortion as much as possible across all of the various factors.  That explains why no one adjustment should be considered more or less difficult or important than any other.  Anyhow, to your question concerning Antiskating specifically as it relates to VPI tonearms, it has been my experience and observation that generally they are often optimally served with very little to no antiskating.  I have decided to leave Antiskating force off on my own Fatboy equipped HW-40.  I do have a VPI prototype tonearm in development as this is written that looks terrific and that I expect to receive shortly.  It might be a different story, but that is something for the future.  AnalogMagik suggests that for tonearms 12" and longer AS is not required.  Since most VPI tonearms are at least 10", that might be explanatory in part for their recommendation.   Anyway, that answers the VPI question and you can stop reading.  For arms from other manufacturers the answer for Antiskate settings is not universal.  For SME arms, I find the factory settings are accurate and should be used.  For Technics, Antiskate settings seem to result in lowest distortion set at ~50% of recommended settings.  On a Denon DP-3000NE, that I just acquired, the factory settings proved to be accurate.  For most TTs from the EU, I am finding it best to start at 50% of recommended setting and increase only if you hear a slight mis-tracking in the upper mids to highs."

a dainty space here is what I am suggesting

"My general advice is that while a small amount of AS is good, too much is worse than none at all.  So use a light touch.  Those are facts, based on AnalogMagik, measurements and careful listening during set up and a number of TTs, not opinions."

@mard 

I used a VPI turntable with a VPI arm. I gave the tone arm wire a twist and used it like that for over 20 years. Never has there been any sign what so ever of damage to an album... of any kind. The sound was spectacular.

Absolutely don't worry about damage. 

elliottbnewcombjr

... most of us ASSUME manufacturing perfection regarding zenith, and most are unwilling to spend $1,100. for AnalogMagik, (even if aware of the possibility, and Wally’s error % findings) ...

Independent of zenith error resulting from manufacturing tolerances, the error can also result from poor phono cartridge alignment. That’s why I use a scored, mirrored gauge to align the cantilever itself, rather than rely on the phono cartridge body as a reference.

It’s long amazed me that so many audiophiles obsess over antiskate or VTF, but then completely ignore zenith.