why are sellers to be trusted, but buyers are not?


We buy and sell on sites like this so there is an exchange of 2 things that  have  an agreed upon equal value

  1. the item being sold from a seller
  2. money from a buyer

in all cases, the seller must be trusted to send the item as described, but the buyer is not trusted to send the money. And more and more, sellers are insisting to be paid in ways that have no recourse for the buyer, like PayPal F&F, Venmo, etc.

The item and the money are of equal value.. so why is one party to be trusted and the other is not? Why does the seller always insist on waiting to get paid before they ship? Why doesn’t the buyer insisting on getting the item before they will pay for it?

I have hundreds of perfect feedback going back over 20 years  on multiple platforms, but the seller always insists I pay them first even if they have much, much less feedback. Why should I trust them if they don't trust me?

just curious

 

 

herman

I sent nearly 2K via F&F for a component this year on USAudioMart who had 100% positive deals. I buy tubes on eBay with sellers who have 100% positive as well. I also bought tubes from a member here on Audiogon and he sent me the tubes to try before I bought them. All have gone off without a hitch. Reputation and trust. 

2K is about my limit however, and anything above that would be risky in my estimation. Escrow service lawyers, if shown to be experienced in that work, does sound like a good solution.

Personally, I would trust a lawyer who was also an audiophile like moto_man as this trade is a community and, for whatever reason, I feel comfortable with others who share my interest in this hobby. 

 

@gjfalls 

My condolences. Sad. 

This is definitely a possible outcome. I bought a high intensity lamp... the black ones with a leveraged arm with two heavy counterweights opposite the bulb and small hood on eBay. 

It came with the pivot mechanism destroyed. The counter weights were left on the unit. They screw off. The person put a huge effort into covering all the different parts with paper... making a box from several others. Clearly put in a lot of effort... but without a clue about physics. There was zero chance it was going to make it in tack. I felt really bad. Of course she had me throw it out, and I got a full refund. 

@ghdprentice 

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I’ve communicated with the seller via Reverb’s website where it all began. He’s in denial on his culpability in why and how the damage occurred. I paid $1,700 for a Vintage 1970’s TEAC 3340S Reel to Reel Tape Deck. I’ve wanted one since I was a young adult but couldn’t afford. The online presentation looked good. The seller claimed that the deck had recently been serviced. The seller mentioned that he was an engineer which I took into account because engineers tend to be precise in how they do things. But this guy literally put two wraps of bubble wrap around a 44 pound machine and put it in a makeshift cardboard box with no additional padding and sent it internationally (from Austria) via FedEx. When it arrived the right reel spindle was protruding through the cardboard box. I knew I was in trouble! After opening the box the right reel spindle was loose somehow behind the plate of the front of the deck and one of the empty reel’s center caps was destroyed. I stopped looking after that and contacted the Seller. He’s blaming FedEx. I’m asking to return his machine for a full refund.

This is my first purchase from someone overseas.

I’ll see how this pans out…GF

Following up on my previous post, as an audiphool myself, and as a lawyer, I am willing to set up an escrow service for buyers and sellers here if people think that there is a demand for such a service.  I can roll that out and see if people are interested.  That way there are no horror stories. Buyer puts funds in escrow and money is not released until the equipment arrives as promised.  It is the seller’s responsibility to pack gear properly and equipment must arrive at the buyer’s undamaged.  Seller is responsible for damage, generally, if not properly packed.  The fee would be the same as PayPal goods and services.  Especially with bigger ticket items, there is a piece of mind to such arrangement that is far better than PayPal, for example.

“That way there are no horror stories.”

@moto_man - Who are you kidding?!

Did you think this through? Everything will work out great, until it doesn’t. As one example, when does the seller receive their money? When the buyer receives the shipment, one day after receiving it (so they have a chance to check out their new equipment), or some other timing? What happens when the buyer says the equipment/speaker doesn’t work properly, or isn’t in the expected condition, or some other form of “this isn’t what I expected” based on a “failure to communicate” between buyer and seller, or a poorly worded advertisement, or unrealistic expectations? What is the broker’s specific role in the event of (ugh!) shipping damage? Those can take a long time to resolve if a shipper is involved.  Will every case of shipping damage involve a return to the seller? Who pays for the return shipping? What if there really is no damage? Is the “broker” going to referee every type of dispute?

Finally, how would you determine your fee, and would there be a change order  in the event of a dispute or some other calamity that exponentially increases your time commitment.  I doubt you would get away with simply adding it to the bill, as is SOP for attorneys.  Good luck in your endeavor but, you couldn’t pay me enough for that job! I would rather be a marriage counselor! frown