Turntable advice / opinion on setup / sound.


Hello all you analog experts. I am seeking some advice, opinions and direction to try, based on my tastes and setup. 

I’m not loving my current TT sound but there are variables that could cause this. For reference, my favorite TT I ever owned was the ClearAudio Champion Level 2 (wish I never sold it) because it was warm and had a huge stage. 

  1. I listen to every style of music, smooth jazz to hard metal. 
  2. I have to turn the volume way up to get the get the level I like which at times has hiss and a tiny bit of hum. Compared to digital sources which have none of these issues. 
  3. I find this setup to lack huge stage and warmth. 

My current system is:

  1. Rega Planar 8 w/ Alpheta 2 MC cart.  
  2. Cambridge Audio -> Alva Duo Phono Pre amp
  3. Mark Levinson -> No 585 Amp. 
  4. Martin Logan 15a Renaissance -> 8FT apart/ 3ft off the front wall and 3 FT from each side wall. I sit 9FT away from the speakers.  

The turntables I am considering are:

1) Musical Fidelity -> M8XTT

What cart would you use?

2) Michell Audio -> Gyro SE Turntable

3) Clear Audio Champion Level 2

Thank you all in advance for any guidance and opinions you can offer. 

necrosuit

Larry, You wrote, "Such arms tend to have very high horizontal effective mass and much lower vertical effective mass.  Some claim this is a problem while others say this is a virtue.  On some records with very deep bass, the bass is mixed closer to mono to reduce vertical modulation; this means wider horizontal movement.  Higher effective mass and the lack of movement as a pivot means that the arm resists horizontal movement from groove modulation meaning that the full bass signal will be picked up by the cartridge and not lost by the cartridge moving side to side.  I don’t know if this is the case, but the airbearing arms I had delivered very powerful bass."

I am one who thinks that high horizontal effective mass is probably a virtue for the reason you state in relation to low frequency (and maybe also mono) reproduction. There may be a benefit to anchoring the pivot point when the stylus has to do a lot of work in the horizontal plane. The high effective mass prevents the tail from wagging the dog. There are probably ways to prove or disprove this hypothesis. I have argued this point here from time to time.

@elliottbnewcombjr 

Rega are an interesting example of engineering-driven development.  One example is the three-bolt attachment they use for their own cartridges.  Notably, two of the holes are at the standard 1/2" spacing used by most manufacturers, so they are compatible with most third-party cartridges.  Any engineer can tell you that 3 contact points are more secure than 2.  Three can also often be better than four, as you have found with your rack!  My main deck and my phono stage both use three-points of contact, which is ideal for levelling if not for stability angry.

I am sure you will agree that 4-mm adjustment would get the Rega arm parallel to the record for almost all cartridges.  But that 4-mm equates to only 1-degree of tracking error, which is way under the 2-degrees of Horizontal Tracking Angle error of most pivoting tonearms under ideal set-up conditions.  It is also much less than typical production tolerances of Stylus Rake Angle and errors setting most diamond styli into cantilevers.  Hence Roy Grundy’s assertion that VTA does not really matter.

Roy Grundy started his professional life working for Ford of England.  At that time, Ford was working hard to keep cost and mass out of its cars, in particular the Cortina. This culminated in the Lotus Cortina, with input from Colin Chapman whose recipe for increasing performance was to "add lightness".  Adding lightness reduces the amount and cost of raw materials, and makes shipping easier. 

Ford also had massive industrial relations issues, and reliability.  Roy started by fixing other manufacturer’s tables before delivery, and has created a collaborative workplace, not easy to achieve in the UK.

In a light car, NVH suffers.  Noise, Vibration and Harshness.  Adding sound deadening increases weight, and heavy flywheels are needed to smooth the impulses from Internal Combustion Engines.  I think if Roy Gundy had started at Rover, his record playing designs might be a bit different.

Arguably, players need a massive end (the platter) and the lightest possible effective stylus mass.  Rega has been working its way up from very affordable decks, towards the higher-end, with 10 models in its current range.  Obviously, one would expect sound quality to improve, or in the other direction, compromises to be made to keep costs down.

Having so many models provides a recurrent benefit, in that the HiFi press has a lot to talk about, which in turn keeps the Rega name front-of-mind for many.  Rega’s focus on vibration control has much in common with another English manufacturer, Wilson Benesch who operate at the pinnacle of high-end - and high mass where it matters.

Now if only Quad had produced a few more electrostatic speaker models to excite the HiFi press...

@lewm 

Isn't your point made already - low compliance cartridges normally need high mass tonearms?

Lewm,

Moerch makes a pivoting arm, the DP 8 model, with very high horizontal mass but low vertical mass for this reason.  At the pivot point it has a shaft perpendicular to the armtube that holds weight on both ends that increase horizontal mass by a significant amount, but because they are centered st the pivot, they don’t add much vertical effective mass.  Moerch describes this as their anisotropic arm.  This arm also delivers a big bass sound.

@richardbrand 

IF I was going to make a ’new’ 3 point mount, I would make 1 centered forward hole to fix overhang distance for my fixed arm, and two rear screws 1/2" apart to simply fasten thru the two slots, triangular should be a better mount than 3 down the centerline.

Then, my 3 point cartridges with a pair of 1/2" rear holes could be used in any arm on any TT with slots long enough for the two rear screws (just don’t use the front center hole).

Of course I wouldn’t use 14mm high, that would be ....

Is this fella Roy exceptionally good looking or something? Why so many apostles?