Speaker hunt -> To leave or not Leave Martin Logan Behind

Hi all, well I have to say that I am on a search as well to switch up my ML's but not for any of the reasons anyone says here.  To date and over 40 years of owning and or listening to a ridiculous amount of speakers, my current ML CLX Art's with custom line source Dipole open baffle pressure port loaded woofer towers (4-15" drivers per tower) are the best sounding set of speakers I have owned bar none. I use an active cross over to split the duties of my amplifiers.  So you are asking why the change?  Well I am downsizing and the 4' x 6' per side panels are too big.  Here is a list of the speakers I have owned and auditioned.

OWNED

Mirage M7si

Mirage M3si

Mirage M1si

Mirage BPXv

Mirage BPSS210 subs 2ea

Egglestonworks Andra

Egglestonworks Andra II

Egglestonworks Andra III

Egglestonworks Rosa (2pair)

Egglestonworks Isabel

Egglestonworks Center Chanel

Egglestonworks Center Chanel w/ Andra bottom custom

Egglestonworks Savoy

Wisdom Audio Dipole 75

Wisdom Audio M75's

Wisdom Audio M50's 2ea

Wisdom Audio B7 Subs 2ea

B&G 520i 3 pair

Wilson Watt Puppy 5's

Wilson Wow Subs 2ea

Genesis V

Infiniti Beta (2 pairs)

Infiniti Kappa 9's

Apogee Diva

Apogee Centaur Major

Apogee Full Range

Odeon 26

Definitive Technology BP2000

Definitive Technology BP3000

Ohm F

Emerald Physics 2.8's

Emerald Physics 4.8's

Gershman Gap 520

Gershman Avant Garde RX20 (2 pair)

Magnepan MMG

Magnepan 1.6

Magnepan 2.6

Magnepan 3.7i

Von Schweikert VR 4

Velodyne DD 10

Velodyne DD 12 2ea

Pass Labs Rushmore

Martin Logan Prodigy

Martin Logan Summit

Martin Logan CLX Art

Accustat 1+1

Talon Khorus X

Silverline Sonatina

Silverline Sonata

Totem Forest

Sequerra Met 7

Sequerra Met 11

 

AUDITIONED

Vandersteen 5a

Vandersteen 5a Carbon

Vandersteen 7

Vandersteen 7XTRM

Apogee Full Range

Apogee Scintilla

Apogee Grands

Krell LAT

Von Schweikwert VR 8

Magnepan 20.1

YG Sonja XV

Kharma Exquisite

Rockport Altair

Avalon Eidilon

Talon Firebird

Infinity IRS V

Genesis Dragon

Pipedreams with Subs

Rel G1 Stack

ATC SCM40's
 

That does not include all the speakers I listened to at Axpona last week.  I have read in these posts about lack of midrange body and highs that are too bright or that they need to be close to a rear wall but then need rear wall treatment. Well let me try to answer that and also address the obvious.  First most speakers sound better into a room not against a wall and that includes the Logans.  I run mine 5' into the room and the depth of stage is incredible.  My issue with my other ML's has been bass integration.  Bass was always slow and never seemed coherent.  I would up using high efficient 98db 15" CF woofers rated at 250W.  They are stacked in a front pressure port as originally designed by Clayton Shaw.  I power them with 2 crown k2 amps in mono and OMG is the Bass insane and FAST!  I am currently running a VCap BAT REX 500 with Gen4 caps on the CLX Arts with one little trick!  ALL ML's suffer from an impedance drop at 20khz to below 1 ohm.  The Arts are .7 ohms.  This drop can cause many amps to have problems, osscilate and distort.  This will not just affect the the upper frequency but the whole spectrum.   There are 2 simple solutions, one being using Zero Autoformers or two, a Zobel Network.  I specifically spoke to the people at ML at Axpona as to just include a simple solution to the problem.  I have also had many amps that I have used and most sounded better with the Zobel Network on the ML's.  No ringing, no lean mids. Everything full, detailed and coherent.  You list a Mark Levinson as your amp, I definitely believe if you spent $30 and made a Zobel Network you would find a new listening experience and for those who use tube amps with ML's to try Autoformers.  The results will be eye opening.  Here are 3 links for reference.

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/clx-art-impedance-curve.16546/

https://hometheaterhifi.com/blogs/little-things-using-a-zobel-network-to-reduce-harshness-with-electrostatic-speakers/

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/what-about-zero-autoformers.18964/

Afternoon all,

Thanks again for all the feedback, suggestions, and links, really appreciate it. My list is up to 22 speakers to research now… getting a little out of hand (in a good way). I’m also starting to consider amp/tube changes, and maybe even exploring Zobel network options. I try not to go too far down the cable rabbit hole, but for reference I’m currently running Nordost Norse Heimdall 2.

Just wanted to say thanks again and that I’m keeping up with the thread and taking notes as I go.

@technomagus 
Really interesting—thanks for sharing that. I’m going to dig into that combo a bit more. I appreciate the comparison, and yeah, it’d be fun to experiment with amps too.

Looks like I may need to spend some time with KEF speakers as well.

@jtucker 
Haha, that sounds like a blast—but did your pants actually fly off? 😂

@cooperdude6 
I do have some room treatment, but there’s definitely room (no pun intended) for more. I’ve also read that more current could help smooth things out and improve impact on the 15A. My dad has an Accuphase E-5000 that I’d love to own… just not sure it’s in the budget right now. Or is it…

@shiner01 
Thanks for the input. It does seem like adding power and possibly mixing in tubes could be the direction to go. I really love the huge soundstage of the ML 15A, so I want to build around that. What are you currently running for amp/preamp?

@polkalover 
Appreciate it, that “processed” description really resonates. I’ve added those speakers to my list to check out.

@vip428 
Thanks for the detailed reply. I’m definitely going to look into the Zobel network idea., it’s the kind of tuning/experimentation I enjoy, especially when it’s something new to me. Appreciate the insight and the links.

@necrosuit PS Audio BHK Pre and BHK 300 Monos

potential interesting twist ->

ML just reduced the price on their Masterpiece series across the board...during a time of supply chain disruptions and material price increases.  Product refresh coming soon???  The line up is about a decade old at this point. 

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/category/our-speakers

@necrosuit The fatigue I’m experiencing shows up mostly with compressed hard rock recordings,

is this THE major concern meaning are you striving for a more forgiving presentation?  I ask because electrostatic and planar speakers are usually ruthlessly transparent. More forgiving electronics can also be sonically helpful.