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Do streamers make a difference?

Just added the Nagra Streamer and I can wholeheartedly say yes, it does. Without buttons, remote control or a screen, it is elegant in its simplicity. On the other hand, its music selection is anything but simple as it accommodates Qobuz Connect, Tidal Connect, and Spotify Connect. It is Roon ready/Roon Tested, JPLAY Certified, and plays with Audirvāna, Airplay 2, UPnP/dlna for local files and vTuner for radio access.

It is a wonderful device and I hear more music and I hear the music more clearly. But in the interest of full disclosure, is it the streamer or the result of removing a USB connection?

My previous system used a Roon Nucleus Plus as server and streamer and was fed via an AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E ethernet cable from an Xfinity XB7-T modem/router. The Nucleus was then connected via an AudioQuest Dragon USB cable to a Playback Designs USB-X4 interface, which connected to a Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC using their proprietary high-bandwidth fiberoptic cable. In addition to the fiberoptic connection providing galvanic isolation, the USB-X4 also reduces jitter with a clock that is identical to the clock in the MPD-8.

The new system has the Nucleus and the Nagra Streamer each connected via Vodka ethernet cables to the Xfinity XB7-T.  Nagra and Playback Designs share design technology and the Nagra Streamer connects to the MPD-8 with the same proprietary fiberoptic connection as the USB-X4 and also incorporates the identical clock, yielding the same sonic benefits in terms of noise and jitter reduction.

There is definite improvement in terms of detail and space. There is simply more to the music. I venture that the streamer contributes the lion’s share but acknowledge that I have removed a USB connection from the flow, which may also contribute to the difference. 

While I believe it is a great addition to my system, the Nagra is not for everybody since its connectivity is limited to only two outputs, the second being an S/PDIF. The USB port is an input for hard and flash drives. 

The matching Nagra Compact PSU almost doubles the purchase price so I have ordered a Teddy Pardo LPS to replace the included SMPS. 

I do not use a network switch since I have only the two ethernet connections and see no reason to isolate one from the other. I also believe clocking is not an issue, but I am interested in what others think on both fronts.

Of note, EMM employ a similar proprietary fiberoptic cable set-up but utilize a different format that is not compatible with Nagra and Playback Designs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tcutter
ted_b
75 posts
 

Does the streamer also play a role here?

@tcutter Even where USB provides the connection from the streamer and the DAC holds the clock, the streamer very much factors into the overall result. This is because whatever noise generated by the streamer that finds its way into the USB transceiver has a direct path into the DAC. This potentially affects the DAC's clock, decoder, and even its analog section. This accounts for the popularity of USB isolators and DDCs that suppress source noise and regenerate the digital signal.

When we look at upmarket streamers, we generally find a larger chassis with a separate, low-noise (usually linear) power supply for the USB transceiver, USB board architecture that isolates it from the streamer's CPU, and a lower phase noise USB packet oscillator. So while WiiM Ultra and Innuos Statement streamers both pass the same bit perfect digital data via USB from any given music track, one does a far better job of suppressing the polluting EMI that goes with it. 

tcutter's avatar
tcutter OP
401 posts
 

@ted_b 

I guess what I am trying to ask is: do both the server and the streamer play a role or does the streamer’s impact render the server’s contribution moot since it is between the server and the DAC?

ted_b
75 posts
 

@tcutter Can a noisy server pass EMI into a streamer and subsequently into the DAC?

As long as there is a galvanic cable connection between them, then a pathway exists and it is possible. This is one theoretical advantage of fiber optic and WiFi, both of which block galvanic noise. With galvanic connections, it becomes a matter of how well the streamer suppresses whatever noise is present at that point before it reaches the DAC. Better streamers are engineered with a galvanically isolated USB transceiver for this purpose. 

cleeds
6,583 posts
 

ted_b

... As long as there is a galvanic cable connection between them, then a pathway exists and it is possible. This is one theoretical advantage of fiber optic and WiFi, both of which block galvanic noise ...

Ethernet connections are also galvanically isolated.

ted_b
75 posts
 

Ethernet connections are also galvanically isolated.

@cleeds Ethernet port isolators block DC and low impedance AC currents, but they pass high impedance AC leakage. Also, the ethernet isolator circuit itself generates ground plane noise on the downstream side. 

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