1. Home
  2. digital
  3. 197931-90040

Do streamers make a difference?

Just added the Nagra Streamer and I can wholeheartedly say yes, it does. Without buttons, remote control or a screen, it is elegant in its simplicity. On the other hand, its music selection is anything but simple as it accommodates Qobuz Connect, Tidal Connect, and Spotify Connect. It is Roon ready/Roon Tested, JPLAY Certified, and plays with Audirvāna, Airplay 2, UPnP/dlna for local files and vTuner for radio access.

It is a wonderful device and I hear more music and I hear the music more clearly. But in the interest of full disclosure, is it the streamer or the result of removing a USB connection?

My previous system used a Roon Nucleus Plus as server and streamer and was fed via an AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E ethernet cable from an Xfinity XB7-T modem/router. The Nucleus was then connected via an AudioQuest Dragon USB cable to a Playback Designs USB-X4 interface, which connected to a Playback Designs MPD-8 DAC using their proprietary high-bandwidth fiberoptic cable. In addition to the fiberoptic connection providing galvanic isolation, the USB-X4 also reduces jitter with a clock that is identical to the clock in the MPD-8.

The new system has the Nucleus and the Nagra Streamer each connected via Vodka ethernet cables to the Xfinity XB7-T.  Nagra and Playback Designs share design technology and the Nagra Streamer connects to the MPD-8 with the same proprietary fiberoptic connection as the USB-X4 and also incorporates the identical clock, yielding the same sonic benefits in terms of noise and jitter reduction.

There is definite improvement in terms of detail and space. There is simply more to the music. I venture that the streamer contributes the lion’s share but acknowledge that I have removed a USB connection from the flow, which may also contribute to the difference. 

While I believe it is a great addition to my system, the Nagra is not for everybody since its connectivity is limited to only two outputs, the second being an S/PDIF. The USB port is an input for hard and flash drives. 

The matching Nagra Compact PSU almost doubles the purchase price so I have ordered a Teddy Pardo LPS to replace the included SMPS. 

I do not use a network switch since I have only the two ethernet connections and see no reason to isolate one from the other. I also believe clocking is not an issue, but I am interested in what others think on both fronts.

Of note, EMM employ a similar proprietary fiberoptic cable set-up but utilize a different format that is not compatible with Nagra and Playback Designs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

tcutter
rikkipuu's avatar
rikkipuu
357 posts
 

My system has similar machinations to remove USB and use of fiber between an Innuos Statement and Lampizator GG3 and the results are in line with what you and @mclinnguy describe.  

The Statement's ethernet out feeds a OpticalModule.  The OM's fiber feeds a Signature Rendu.  The SR outputs USB to an Antipodes S20 DDC and then S/PDIF BNC to the Lampizator.  If I use the SR's USB to the Lampizator everything goes south.

I think its not either or but both that make the magic.  I just tried a passive DAC cable in place of fiber and the noise level clearly rose.

cleeds
6,596 posts
 
hilde45

I have done extensive A/B comparisons ... But streamer differences – almost nothing compared to the others – for me.

Hearing almost no differences between streamers isn’t quite the same as hearing no difference at all. Of course, a tiny improvement may not be worth a sizable extra cost, but that’s a personal subjective judgment.

@hilde45, have you ever compared a really inexpensive stripped down streamer to something higher end? For example, I started streaming with a Raspberry Pi, LPS, and and a Digi One hat for a SPDIF digital out into my DAC. It sounded quite impressive, and I’m pretty sure that a Raspberry Pi is reliable enough to be "bit perfect." I enjoyed it for a few years, but it wasn’t in the same sonic league as the Aurender that replaced it, or the Bryston that replaced the Aurender.

I’m really curious whether you ever made that comparison. And to be clear, I am as confounded as you: I don’t understand technically how a streamer can make much of a sonic difference.

hilde45's avatar
hilde45
6,020 posts
 

have you ever compared a really inexpensive stripped down streamer to something higher end?

Honestly, no – I went from a bluesound Node 2i – for which I purchased a mod to add an external LPS – to an extremely well-built custom streamer based around the Intel NUC. (Intel NUC Kit model NUC8i7BEH with Core i5 U-series chip, a 256GB Intel NVMe M.2 SSD, and 16GB of DDR4 memory.
Roon rock OS, customized Linux build. Fanless case.) The builder is quite expert.

I would like to try one of the better streamers but from all he tells me and what I read, I cannot understand how they would make things more than marginally better. If I could get, say, an Aurender, and have someone blind test me, that would be interesting. I’m open to being wrong about this and spending the money for a better front end, but at the moment, I’m reluctant to think of this as the biggest bottleneck in my system.

cleeds
6,596 posts
 
hilde45

I would like to try one of the better streamers but ... I cannot understand how they would make things more than marginally better.

I've seen plenty of explanations, usually claiming a difference in noise that can't be measured and that can only be heard once it's gone. I've never found that reasoning persuasive.

As for the value of any "marginally better" improvement - that's purely subjective.

If I could get, say, an Aurender, and have someone blind test me, that would be interesting.

Aurender has tons of dealers. Why not visit one and do some listening?

mitch2
4,752 posts
 

I certainly heard differences between the two streamers (and a reclocker) I recently compared in my system, as discussed in this thread (link).  Related to the expensive vs. inexpensive discussion, I also own a (relatively inexpensive) Metrum Ambre streamer, which is a raspberry pi based streamer with Femto clocking and a linear power supply.  While the Ambre is quiet and sounds pretty good, the two more expensive streamers both provide improved body, tone, and dimensionality, which IMO make the sound of a home audio system more natural and real.

More to discover