The muddy waters of Analogue vs. digital today


With new technology, everything is changing so fast it is hard to keep up with new recordings. I have had a turntable all of my audiophile life, although I admit I played mostly CDs for many years. It was only since I upgraded my analogue system to a certain degree in the mid-nineties, that I could hear that records sounded better than CDs. It wasn’t a very expensive upgrade, a used Rega 3 with glass platter, new Sumiko Bluepoint Special, and a floor demo ARC PH-3. Probably somewhere around $3K. Mid-90s remember.

Now my system is very upgraded and I can hear more differences between vinyl and streaming at high resolution. CDs have kind of been left in the dust. 44.1 resolution sounds kind of tinny and flat. I listen if that’s my only choice, but I can easily hear the difference. I credit myself with a decent ear after doing critial listening for 30+ years. My ear is not as good as most reviewers, but you'll understand why it’s good enough to write a forward to this thread.

I won’t go through the differences I hear between analogue and digital, because you’ve heard it all before. What I want to talk about is my confusion in this new recording landscape. 

I had purchased Roberta Flack’s "First Take" when it came out and I’d kept the record for more than forty years when I realized it had really seen its better days. Basically, it was unlistenable, even after a few washes in the Degritter. I looked at near mint copies of the record and they were quite expensive. Then I saw that there was a new pressing for a reasonable price.

I was listening to the new pressing of "First Take" a few days ago when I realized it sounded overly compressed at the high end. I asked my new audiophile friend chatgpt if the record was pressed from an analogue source. Nope. I was basically listening to a digital recording pressed into vinyl. Chatgpt says that most records made after 1980 come from digital sources. So, I found a reasonablly priced orignal pressing of "First Take." My grandaugher in college can have the digital one.

Today I was playing a fairly new recording of Gustavo Dudamel and Yuja Wang playing Rachmaninoff’s Variations on a Theme by Paganini. I live in L.A. and have been lucky enough to see Dudamel live many times and Yuga Wang several times. It’s a beautiful recording, wide and deep and detailed and musical. I pronounced it the best classical recording I owned. But it was put out recently. So, I checked with my audiophile buddy chatgpt. The record is from a very high resolution digital source. Chatgpt says that digital can sound more analogue on vinyl because the engineers roll off the high end a bit.

So, now things are more than a bit confusing. Do I buy a recording from before the 80’s on expensive vinyl or might it actually sound better streaming at 192 kHz? If you listen to Patricia Barber’s "Clique" at 172 kHz, it sounds pretty good. So good, i have not bothered to go out and buy it on vinyl.

Does anyone else feel a similar confusion in this modern market, and do you have any suggestions for negotiating it?

audio-b-dog

@tomic601 

"To be transparent, I’m also in the camp of RVG as mortal…."

In my mind immortal! What he was able to do with just microphones and mixing boards to 2 track or 3 track in a single take and then in the wee hours of the morning have a finished album spliced together and cutting it to laquear in his studio to send off for plating is just beyond reproach. He also had a day job as an optometrist!

"@faustuss Well then your assessment of MM is exactly consistent w muddy waters.. it all depends on.. I do value experience over repeating things I am thinking this conversation forms excellent basis for 3 LP shootout… MM vs Reissue Classis vs Tone Poet… probably have to wait for Spring for me  aside my MM collection doesn’t even number 13 as I was fortunate to pick them up at local shop which doesn’t mark stock to market…."

I would never discourage your pursuit of collecting MMJs, they are unique, beautifully presented and Francis Wolff’s black and studio photos of the artists inside the gatefolds present an open door to an invaluable snapshot of history. The old venetian blinds, the tar-stained paint on the walls in the background and the ashtrays overflowing with cigarette butts, makes the mind run wild! A few of the albums like The Golden 8 have color photos inside. I think you’re very lucky to have access to them from a vendor who isn’t crazy about the potential markup he could slap on them. The thirteen you have, are to be treasured!

To put a button on this discussion, here is what I have learned. I will use my streamer more for discovering new music and playing music that I like. I can also play CD's using my streamer's DAC. When I do decide to purchase vinyl, I will be so much more careful than I have been in the past. Although some of you do not use or trust chatgbt, I will use it as a way to find out more about any vinyl album I want to purchase. Someone suggested using Discogs, which gives information about albums, but chatgbt will answer my specific questions. I do, however, purchase almost al of my used albums from Discogs.

I had no idea when I began this forum how complicated this topic is, and I feel enlightened from having used it.

Dancing in the Dark is not on Born to Run @audio-b-dog. It's on one his records I don't own (maybe Born in the USA?) I have BTR on a Columbia Half Speed Master and it sounds fine. In general Springsteen's albums are not as good sounding as most other artists, but he has several great ones. My japanese pressing of E Street Shuffle is one of my favorite records.

@sokogear 

My apologies. You're right it's on Born in the USA. I purchased Born to Run when it came out and it is a fine sounding album. Born in the USA sounds terrible on my system.

@audio-b-dog - no worries. They both had Born in the title which most likely caused your minor mistake.

I very carefully select what records to buy since I listen to them on a pretty consistent rotation. If you can't listen to an album at least once a year then you are collecting it, not listening to it. I'm not close to that, but to me you need to listen at least every 3-4 months and I'm just about there in terms of max records to own.

I have a basic all in one CD player for the 50-100 CDs I own which are not available on vinyl (or for a reasonable price). I was only playing them in my car or on a Bose radio for about 20 years until I realized there were a few dozen that I really wanted to hear on my stereo. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the SQ of a number of them which were very well produced. I wonder how much better they would sound on vinyl.

No streaming for me unless you consider the Sirius XM radio in my wife's car. I do occasionally pick up something new I like there, but more often that not it is from an artist I already have in my vinyl library, and usually it is the worst of the lot after I get it, but still worth having. I'm sorry to say I've bought a few records where I really liked one song I heard and the rest of it wasn't that great (or I may skip a whole side). Streaming would just be too many decisions....and I would end up listening to my favorites less.