What innovative, unconventional cartridge designs can you recommend?

@richardbrand wrote:

Anyway, this thread has had more legs than expected and is all the better for that ...

... and it’s far from over. Your cartridge is arriving soon! 

 

Dear @lewm ​@neonknight   :  Appreciated your concern about me.  I just decided left the analog Agon forum for a while due that seems t me that  almost everything that we as MUSIC lovers and audiophile need to learn already done and as my posts in this forum I found out only repetition of other gentlemans posts ( exactly as mines. ), A few years I had the necessity to " invent " new " threads " that I posted looking to follow leraning and it happens that way.

 

I'm posting, time to time, in other Agon forums ( out og Agon othernet forums are only more of the same, nothing attractive. ).

Suddenly I read the title of this thread that has interest for me but was a little disappointnted for several reasons.

 one of my reflexions on the thread came from what the OP posted because seems to me that he is more interested in hardware/tech than in the MUSIC reproduction.

For what he showed in the forum he is an almost analog roockie and even his experiences with cartridges comes from two MM cartridges one of them  not only a vintage but ceratinly not a truly superior vintage quality performer with that Shure Type 3 and the other an almost entry level  AT cartridge. Ok anyway those are his experinces. He posted:

"  I’ve never even owned a Moving Coil type. " but even all those  just at the start of second page of his thread decided for the DS Audio optical cartridge.

 

Why? because:

 

" My reasons for going DS Audio, and the DS003 in particular, include:

 

3 -The very low effective tip mass should enable better tracking than other cartridge types  "........................."

 

With respect to him I tink no one of his reasons can be proved by him, example:

the tip effective mass for the Technics EPC100CMK4 is 0.005 mgs and for the Micro Acoustic 630 only 0.0015mg even the Empire 4000 D# is even lower and tracks at 0.25 grsms in VTF as the ADC 26 and the OP is nt taking in count the cartridge compliance that between other things almost defines the cartridge tracking abilities and in this parameter the ADC is 50 Cu

@richardbrand   could you tell us if your DS Audio outperforms the cartridge FR Technics ( I named it ) specification? :

 

" It is a moving magnet one-point suspension with “ all HPF core, precision ground finish “, the cantilever is pure boron tapered pipe with a TTDD ( Technics Temperature Defense Damper ), the magnet is a Disc-shaped samarium-cpbalt with (BH) max=30 MG . Oe, the stylus tip is a especial linear elliptical stylus, with an effective moving mass of 0.055 mg. ( please don't ask what means these Technics propietary " cartridge design/build " characteristics: I don't have idea yet. )

Frequency response: 5 Hz- 120,000 Hz  "

 

In the other side @dover  forgot the Victor L1000 ( similar to the AT 1000X ) that I owned and at least other two " innovative " cartridges: The Nagatron ribbon cartridge:

" is a true ribbon cartridge, quite similar in operation to the transducing principle of the ribbon microphone. However, the less-than-full-turn metallic ribbon "coil" acts in a magnetic field not unlike the standard multi-turn coil commonly used in moving-coil cartridges. Its frequency response is not affected by wide variations in resistive and capacitive loading. An important feature is that its output is inherently phase linear.

he ribbon design concept does not rely upon varying the magnetic field in order to induce a voltage. Instead, the mag net is fixed, and the two flat strands of metallic ribbon (one per channel) move in direct proportion to the stylus-tip motion within the constant magnetic field. In this way, magnetic flux density is always constant and directly proportional to actual stylus-tip velocity. "

 

The other one are the Micro Acoustics electrostatic cartridges. He re you can read about:

 

Micro-Acoustics System II Product Catalogue | Vinyl Engine

 

click on " brochure " and in " the System II phono cartridge ".

 

I owned or still own all those cartridges but the ribbon one ( but I own the Nagatron 9600 and the 350 VDH. Btw, Dr. van DenHul reference cartridge is nothing less than the Technics MK4 and a gentleman in this forum with a top  analof front end posted here that that Technics outperformed his Lyra Atlas: Go figure! what I'm talking about ) and you can get in the second hand maret in Japan and you can be sure that any of them outperform the DS Audio and are a challenge for any today very top LOMC cartridges.

I wonder other than real MUSIC against which cartridges you will make comparisons with the DS Audio other than the Shure/AT mediocrity level.

 

Obviously that's only my opinion than several times just do not like the gentlemans in this forum.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

 

 

 

@rauliruegas 

I started this thread because I was genuinely looking for guidance on what to buy today to replace my vintage and my almost entry-level new MM cartridges.  I qualified the title because I did not want everybody shouting from the rooftops how great their own cartridge sounded, without giving any plausible explanation as to why.

In case you missed it, my dad gave me his Garrard 301 with SME 3009 Series 2 improved tone arm, mounted in an SME plinth.  I started to realise that these are highly valued, and wanted to find out why.  I embarked on a series of upgrades and got to roughly parity with CD sound quality, but @lewm in particular convinced me there was more quality to be had.

So I recently purchased a near reference Holbo Mk2 air bearing system with tangential tone arm.  That got me past the CD sound quality benchmark albeit with a vintage Shure cartridge fitted with a Jico SAS/B microline stylus.  The next step was a better cartridge, and Holbo had mentioned DS Audio amongst a host of other top end cartridges.  Hence this thread!

You challenged me to compare the specifications of the second from the bottom DS003 cartridge I bought against the Technics 

could you tell us if your DS Audio outperforms the cartridge FR Technics ( I named it ) specification?

One obvious area where the DS003 has better specification is channel separation, 27 dB versus 24 dB.  But both my MM cartridges are better still!

Frequency response is murkier because while Technics, and you, claim: Frequency response: 5 Hz- 120,000 Hz, this is pretty meaningless without guardrails, when it becomes 20-Hz to 15-kHz -0.3dB which is roughly what labs have reported for the DS003.

Another spectacular win for the DS003 is output of 70-mV.

Korf has some further insights, see Cartridges (my emphasis though)

 

There is an oft-repeated misconception that MCs sound better just because of their lower moving mass. The lowest published moving mass cartridge is a moving magnet (MM), Technics EPC-100C Mk4.

Please note we are only discussing magnetic pickup cartridges here. There are many other types, like optical, strain gauge, capacitive etc. All of them have remarkable sonic potential and can be built to a level competitive with top MCs.

I generally prefer to play the ball, not the man but your closing reamrks deserve a reply"

I wonder other than real MUSIC against which cartridges you will make comparisons with the DS Audio other than the Shure/AT mediocrity level.

Obviously that's only my opinion than several times just do not like the gentlemans in this forum.

My first 30 years of listening to classical music were either live performances or vinyl, so call me a newbie if you like. When CDs came out, I called in on Peter Walker of Quad fame, who said they were fantastic, so I switched to CDs at exactly the time I got my Garrard to Australia.  I am really not that interested in hardware, just on buying as well as possible when I can afford to.

I would prefer to rely on manufacturers' actions than reviewers' articles or blog posts. Ed Meitner was focused on SACD before DS Audio blew up his vinyl expectations.  He ranks SACD ahead of vinyl, then CD.  Apart from comparing with live music, I sometimes compare with SACD and CD versions of the same recording with vinyl.  I also go to audio shows and visit dealers.

I don't claim to have golden ears or aspire to be a reviewer, but I am happy to share my experiences to hopefully help others. On the other hand, I am a trained scientist and I believe there is a physical reason for every real change in sound quality, whether we know why or not!

Welcome back, Raul!