The Audio Science Review (ASR) approach to reviewing wines.


Imagine doing a wine review as follows - samples of wines are assessed by a reviewer who measures multiple variables including light transmission, specific gravity, residual sugar, salinity, boiling point etc.  These tests are repeated while playing test tones through the samples at different frequencies.

The results are compiled and the winner selected based on those measurements and the reviewer concludes that the other wines can't possibly be as good based on their measured results.  

At no point does the reviewer assess the bouquet of the wine nor taste it.  He relies on the science of measured results and not the decidedly unscientific subjective experience of smell and taste.

That is the ASR approach to audio - drinking Kool Aid, not wine.

toronto416

 IMHO his measurement selection still misses a number of relevant subtleties. Most notably the time domain performance of DACs and amplifiers, which are essentially not measured at all by instrumentation like the AP analyzers (they rely upon steady-state sine stimuli only).

+1. 

Time domain are much more difficult.  Steady state frequency response are a lot more easy to meaure.

 

Post removed 

For me, this Audiogon forum is a good place; the other night I tried to reply on ASR to a gentleman who was asking for opinions, intended as subjective listening impressions, on the Straight Wire Crescendo and Acoustic Zen speaker cables. I was assailed by many members of that forum asking if I had performed double-blind tests and that, in any case, numerous scientific papers demonstrated that the only parameter that matters in speaker cables is resistance. Otherwise, all cables sound the same, as long as they're not broken or too thin. They called me a troll. I had to delete myself from that forum, and with great pleasure. This is my experience. I'd never been called a "troll. 
Being attacked by aggressive people creates nervousness and resentment in the guest, leading to abandonment. It's precisely the climate that's poisonous, even before the scientific "method." IMHO

Welcome here...

The dumbest blindest people are often the half educated one ...

I had the same experience the only time i went there ...

Subjective opinion once banned because attacked then  self censored transform anyone in a sheep zombie...

For me, this Audiogon forum is a good place; the other night I tried to reply on ASR to a gentleman who was asking for opinions, intended as subjective listening impressions, on the Straight Wire Crescendo and Acoustic Zen speaker cables. I was assailed by many members of that forum asking if I had performed double-blind tests and that, in any case, numerous scientific papers demonstrated that the only parameter that matters in speaker cables is resistance. Otherwise, all cables sound the same, as long as they're not broken or too thin. They called me a troll. I had to delete myself from that forum, and with great pleasure. This is my experience. I'd never been called a "troll. 
Being attacked by aggressive people creates nervousness and resentment in the guest, leading to abandonment. It's precisely the climate that's poisonous, even before the scientific "method." IMHO

ASR publishes what may be helpful measurements, BUT ASR is soooooooo into their limited thinking:

  • “In high-end audio, “known” measurements are all that sonically matters” which is based on NOTHING.  
  • High-end electronics guru John Curl says “if it can be measured, we don’t know what to measure”.  Our hearing acuity is much more sensitive than current available measurements.  
  • They think sharing personal experience is worthless, again BASED ON NOTHING. 

I highly suspect:

  • it’s driven by component cost resentment so they dig in their heels crying foul
  • their audio chains do not have low enough noise floors to hear meaningful differences. 
  • Unwilling/too lazy to demo better equipment where sonic differences are more easily heard
  • They’re quick default excuse is A/B comparisons  ISN’T practical/possible in most cases because changing most components take time to switch out so it’s not quick enough to compare to aural memory.
  • They think sharing personal experience/reviews is worthless - again BASED ON NOTHING.  This key info is what we typically use to evaluate components to try.
  • of not proven, likely a placebo - BASED ON NOTHING.  Placebo only applies to close questionable sonic differences, not “significant” changes

Sometimes I’m amazed on how stubborn some can get, some preferring to live a falsehood/lie than to face the truth of admitting they are wrong (self-esteem tied to right/wrong), removing the target of unaffordablity/resentment of perceived price gauging, their venting self righteous pity party. 

If a group likes to stick their heads in the sand, that’s their problem. Not worth the effort to try to convince them of their folly.  

@iani welcome to Agon