"Too much gain"? (Cary SLP05 question)

Update, trials and tribulation with the abundant gain on the Cary SLP-05.  

I just received some relatively high efficiency speakers (DeVore Fidelity) and they are much more sensitive to too much overall system gain. They simply sound over driven, edgy, uneven response that makes them sound bright and forward. 

I love the speakers and am working to keep them. 

System gain- 23db preamp + 29db amplitier = 52db.  

Added 10db rothwell attenuators between preamp and amp, reduced system gain to 42db.  Sounds excellent but the attenuators do affect the sound quality. I can use the RCA outs on the Cary (17db) but the sound is much better when using XLR outs (more dynamic, extended bass, bigger sound stage because it uses another set of 6SN7 tubes in the path),  

I purchased a tube preamp with 15db gain, sound is perfect (44 db total gain).  However even though it is an excellent tube preamp, it does not sound as good as the Cary.  The Cary preamp is pure magic with the right tubes and rectifier and worth keeping.  Therefore I am sending it to Cary to have the gain reduced, a service they perform which will reduce gain by 6db balanced and single ended- so 17 db for the XLRs, 11 db for the RCA outs.  

After all the workarounds we have done it is clear that the SLP-05 has too much gain for most amps- unless your amp has adjustable or lower than typical gain (Parasound, Bryston, Pass Labs XA25, FirstWatt amps.  

If Cary would just offer reduced gain as a buying option- or - just reduce the gain on the stock version it would be compatible with many more amplifiers and IMHO sell a lot more of them!  

@xcool 

not sure if this is still relevant to you but when I had the Parasound a21+ and then the JC5 amps, I got the best sound by running both the Cary and the Parasound amps with trim levels at 50%.  

Reducing the gain on the Parasounds back panel to 50% and the Carys front panel controls to 50% gave me the best sound using balanced connections.  I know the manuals say to use 100% on the trim controls for best sound but that was not the case for me- try it if you can- 50 / 50.  

Also I am going to get the gain reduction mod from Cary because my amp does not have gain trim like the Parasound. 

@avanti1960 Ooo I have heard the DeVore O96 with a top end Hegel setup and I was very impressed how fun and engaging that speaker is.  If I had a smaller room that would be the first choice to re-investigate.  

Last summer I purchased several precision resistors at varying Ohms to see if I could come up with XLR attenuators.  Think a few bucks each 0.1% metal film.  No matter the schematic (T U etc) or attenuation calculation, it sucked some of the life out of the music.   Back to an earlier point, the 6SN7 are higher voltage, low current and they won't be able to deal with low amp input impedance or high attenuation without significant engineering.  Too bad, I had hopes!

Please let us know how the gain reduction affects your system!   Note, did you reach your 15dB preamp happy spot using the loudest streaming material?  Seems like the streaming industry is going to stick with max volume unless Europe smacks them around a bit.

@jaybe  Grats on the Raven!    Now that you have had a number of months with it how do you like the character of the pre?   I have looked at the specs and followed the discussion here on Agon where Mr. Sachs and Mr. Olsen chimed in.  What caught my eye was the use of the step down voltage/step up current transformer on the output stage.  That could potentially solve all my complaints about Cary gain and allow me to use the XLR inputs on my Pass (20kOhm).

I have also done a fair bit of tube rolling the last year.  My impressions of the difference between RCA and XLR have changed a bit.  I still find the RCA warmer, the XLR brighter.  However the RCA input stage does strange things to the sound compared to DAC straight into the amp.   I have tried a bunch of tubes in the input circuitry and until I grabbed another pair of the Linlai Elites I couldn't figure it out. They are very clear, layered and pretty in the sound, and in comparison I find NOS tubes (early 50s, GTA/B) to be on the murky side.  Think soft focus film vs clear.  My current working theory is that the SLP-05 was voiced for XLR input first, which creates challenges for a completely different circuitry input design.  But, as others here mentioned which I can hear more clearly now with the Linlai elites, it can be a bit overdriven in the highs.

At the end of the day it is still a very nice sounding pre, but with impedance and gain matching challenges.

@avanti1960 do you know how the Cary modification reduces the preamp’s gain?  Do they increase the value of the cathode resistor in the first gain stage or reduce gain by lowering plate-load resistor values?  

@khloebo 

I tried 10db attenuators and the sound was not bad- probably could live with them but since the gain reduction service is available I decided to do that.  Not quite 15db but 17db which should be fine.  The full bore 23db was often acceptable sounding.   Success of attenuators working seems to depend on speaker sensitivity- higher the better. 

@testpilot 

I am not sure how they will achieve the reduced gain it but it will include "new components".