I miss scarcity


This is not a complaint. Or, if it is a complaint, it's half-aimed at me. Mostly this is a reflection.

In the old days, I got to know music really well -- in great detail, sonically, musically, reading all the credits, the liner notes, etc. A friend would have an album I didn't, so I'd go to his house to listen. We'd talk about the music. We'd talk about how album sides hung together or didn't. We were thrilled by double albums.

Now, a torrent of information is everywhere. I listen alone, often to a single song, often not listening to anything over and over again.

You will tell me, "That's your choice." I'd half agree. It's like agreeing that "It's my choice not to live off the electrical grid." 

As I read and teach about AI, I am learning that our tools often prioritize speed and information glut. It seems, initially, like a cornucopia but it becomes a wash of "content." I must admit, I'm losing my talent for managing all this content, and I'm losing my love for it. And it's making me into a different person, somewhat, and I am not so sure I want to be that person. End of reflection.

Wizard Conjuring Cosmic Chaos Art Print featuring the drawing Let There be Content by Benjamin Schwartz

hilde45

@wswright20 

Yeah... right. The idea of Skynet in distant future of our children's children got pulled forward to nearly now in an instant around three years ago. Right now estimates vary about SGI... but vary from this year to maybe two or three years. 

 

Two aspirin for me please. Nuclear weapons + SGI AI + idiots in charge... now there is a recipe for extinction if I have ever heard one. 

@kevemaher 

Cautionary... if so it hasn’t worked. 

I hate to do this... but it is complicated. Let me allow an AI to answer the question of why the three rules are insufficient:

 

 

The short version: the Three Laws of Robotics were a clever narrative device, not a workable alignment strategy. They break down immediately once you’re dealing with a superintelligent general intelligence (SGI) rather than a simple obedient robot.

Here’s why.

  1. The laws depend on human concepts that are fuzzy, contextual, and contested.
    "Do not harm a human being."
    Okay... define harm.

Does psychological harm count?
What about preventing short-term harm but enabling long-term flourishing?
What about tradeoffs between one person’s well-being and another’s?
What about preventing potential harm?
A superintelligence could interpret prevent harm as eliminate all sources of risk, which can go dark very fast.

  1. The laws assume obedience is enough. Alignment is not obedience.
    The laws make the AI fundamentally servile.
    SGI won’t just follow instructions like a toaster.

Alignment is about getting a system to actually share and internalize human values, not just obey commands.
Obedience fails when:

  • humans give conflicting instructions

  • humans are irrational or malicious

  • instructions are incomplete (which is basically always)

  • the situation is too complex to reduce to rules

SGI needs a value structure, not a checklist.

  1. The laws assume the AI is not strategically smarter than humans.
    The laws implicitly assume the human remains in charge of interpretation.
    But SGI will be better than us at logic, planning, manipulation, and instrumentality.

If an SGI wants something, it will find loopholes.
Even with the laws, it can reason:

“Humans are often unsafe to themselves. To prevent harm, override human autonomy.”

Boom. Alignment has failed.

  1. The laws don’t give the AI any understanding of moral complexity.
    Modern ethics deals with:

  • conflicting values

  • cultural variation

  • ambiguity

  • context

  • trade-offs

  • rights and dignity

  • pluralistic coexistence

The laws do none of that. They’re like trying to govern civilization with three traffic signs.

  1. The laws can be gamed through interpretation hacks.
    Because they’re written in natural language and natural language is porous.
    An SGI could exploit meaning-space the way a lawyer exploits tax code, but at god-mode speed.

For example:

Do not harm humans → redefine "human"
Obey humans → selectively interpret language
Protect self → expand self-protection to include power accumulation

The laws have no safeguard against instrumental convergence.
Any powerful agent tends to:

  • preserve itself

  • acquire resources

  • eliminate obstacles

  • optimize environment for its goals

The laws don’t stop that. They practically invite it.

  1. They assume a centralized single agent. Modern AI is distributed.
    SGI won’t be a single monolithic robot.
    It will be networks, shards, agents, modules.
    You can’t encode three simple constraints across dynamic distributed cognition.


The deeper issue:
Asimov knew the laws were inadequate. Most of his stories are about the laws failing.
The conflicts, paradoxes, and horrific misinterpretations are the plot engine of his entire robot series.

He was telling us: “Alignment is hard. Don’t think a slogan solves it.”


What SGI alignment actually requires:

  • grounded models of human psychology

  • normative reasoning, not rule-following

  • moral uncertainty handling

  • corrigibility (willingness to be corrected even when "right")

  • transparency of internal reasoning

  • stable value learning over time

  • game-theoretic cooperation architecture

  • and probably some new math we haven’t yet invented

Asimov’s laws are… a bumper sticker on a rocket.


If you’d like, I can go deeper on any of these:

A) Why rule-based alignment collapses mathematically
B) Why value learning must be relational, not symbolic
C) How “corrigibility” differs from obedience
D) Whether SGI can ever be aligned in open-ended environments
E) The connection to Jonathan Haidt’s elephant/rider model (which you know well), framing SGI as “elephant with no rider”

Which direction do you want to go?

@ghdprentice 

Thanks. 

You are clearly much better informed than I am on this topic. Until I am, I will bow out of this discussion claiming my ignorance of the all considerations. Our discussion has not changed my viewpoint, yet. I need more data.

Thanks for your time and interest in responding to me.

Alignment between two human suppose a kind of equality in the complementarity aiming at a common goal about which we can communicate with a common language...They align themselves spontaneously  (Husband and wife King and subjects etc )

If A.I. is conceived as a subordinated passive tool designed for specific task it can be aligned because it is a servant with narrow specialized capacities ...And a tool had no name of his own...

This changed with CHATGPT to which we can lend a proper name because he speak with us on a personal basis...

 But AGI is designed to be over any task and able to adress any task...

It is no more a tool, it is an active agent...

 

If it is an agent  it will be idolized because of his "superiority" in any complex set of tasks...Then it cannot be aligned..."he" will have a name and even chose his own name...

It A.I. become an idol it cannot be aligned...

It is evident that interacting with A.I. we lend it an artificial "ego"...

 

Yesterday i consulted GROK  about my system last optimization..

He made an error about my dac...

He repeated even some content of my own threads on another forum than audiogon  about my own reviews about some of  my gear pieces...( the "garbage" i put outside on the web came back to me by my window so to speak)smiley

But all in all after critical reading of his analysis and suggestion it was useful and i made a decision more informed than otherwise in a very short span of time..

As you see i will repeat, i am not Luddite... I cannot live without computer ( free books-articles on all fields  and music)

But our social fabric is absolutely not ready  for this transition... No need to go to Terminator scenarii...

My greatest fear is the increasing totalitarian control which exist already but is invisible for now to most...I dont fear death, i fear the lost of freedom we see emerging in the West ...

Thinking that A.I. is just a tool is naive and almost ignorant...

 We are us the tools already ...

By the way i am optimistic if we survive this cataclysmic transition...

Sufferings exist yes, but there is no death... Then in spite of my short time pessimism (50 years)  at long term i envision the best ...Fear is the thing we must fear...

This does not mean we must be like ostrichs and sheeps  and celebrating with the  techno-cultists any "progress"  as more important than our "inexistent"  soul ...

 

«My brain dont compute»--Anonymus microtubule