Possible purchase of the first turntable


Good morning everyone,

I have the following systems:

Source: Marantz SACD 30n
Amp: Arcam FMJ A32
Speakers: Self-built

The Marantz SACD 30n player, I bought it recently as an upgrade from an old Marantz NA8005 player.

When lately I did various listens between speakers and amplifiers, I noticed as I already knew that as the price goes up, the improvements start to feel exponentially less and less.

I think now that we have reached a point where spending double or triple to feel differences happens to change not a single component but at least two, this means that by now there are obvious bottlenecks.

I am convinced that in my case the bottlenecks are 3:

1) Listening environment not acoustically treated and location of speakers with tradeoffs although acceptable
2) Digital masters are sometimes of lower quality than analog vinyl (or vice versa)
3) Digital sound despite its superiority, lacks that touch of naturalness that distinguishes analog. There is no real winner

Even spending several tens of thousands of euros, there would always be these trade-offs that alone would make it almost pointless to even spend crazy figures.

Then I thought a theoretically crazy thing:

Why do I necessarily have to choose between owning digital and analog ? Can't you have both?

Making some rough estimates, a figure came out not recently that may not be enough.

The basic idea is to have two sources: a digital (like my Marantz SACD 30n of which I am very satisfied) and an analogue not of inferior quality but equivalent, to be used in a complementary way and not in replacement.

To the cost of the analog source I should also add the purchase of discs since I practically do not have and therefore at least fifty should buy them as a minimum.

To try to equalize in qualitative terms Marantz thought of something like:

//
Turntables: Technics SL-1300G
Cartridge: Nagaoka MP-500
Pre-Phono: Musical Fidelity MX-VYNL
//

To save money, I'll buy it at the used market, but one piece at a time when I get the right opportunity, I'm not in a hurry.

But I have some doubts that a source of this type can not compete with the Marantz SACD 30n that costs 3000 Euros and has a sound very close to a vinyl, even being digital.

The last time I listened to a vinyl was over 30 years ago was the famous Technics SL-1200 of that era, so I do not know how much it takes economically to have an analog source of a certain level to human figures.

The question is: is it right for me to go this way ? or not because to get what I'm looking for I should spend more and not less ?

What do you think ?

marco777

Of course they are complimentary, I just haven't bothered streaming, and you haven't bothered with Vinyl.

YET!

Since getting my Sony SC5400ES SACD/CD Player, I re-discovered/enjoy my CDs, even bought some new to me used cds, my Vinyl rig is because I had a lot of vinyl, and inherited even more than I had. 

IF you came here, or anywhere, and heard something that convinced you it would be an enjoyable addition to streaming, then you are wise to think long and hard about it before getting started.

I think having a personal hand in the results is a big part of Vinyl.

One thing is true, all sources have things that sound better over others. There is no one size fits all. Some digital sounds like crap, some records sound like crap. 

Sometimes, I'm listing to a record, and think to myself, it's can't possibly sound any better. Then one night I'm streaming, and have the same thought. It's all down to the quality of the source. 

That being said, records are a huge investment, in time, money, storage, more time, and more money. Records need to be stored, sleeved, cleaned... Carts need new needles, also need to be cleaned, same with the TT. It needs to be setup properly, cleaned, maintained. 

Did I tell you records are an investment in time? You got to swap the record every 20min or so, it's all manual. Take the record out of the case, out of the sleeve, put on TT, place needle....

Records, are also becoming expensive. $30-35 is base cost of a new single album. Doubles are $40-50. 

One thing is true, for all this effort, there is something magical about listening to records. There can be something there that is just missing from digital. It keeps me coming back, even though my bank account doesn't like it. 

Yeah but... there’s just something about vinyl. That you can enjoy even with a modest rig. I don’t know.

@marco777 ’s original plan sounded sensible. I’m actually surprised y’all (edit: except @mswale , sort of :) are trying to talk him out of it.

@marco777 

Rather like you, I became vinyl-curious about a year ago after switching to digital just after CDs came out.  My dad gave me his Garrard 301 / SME 3009 / Shure deck at exactly that time, and I hardly used it since.  My record collection was small because my local public library loaned records for free, and I mainly listen to classical.

Then I discovered how much people were paying for old Garrard 301s, and how much SME are charging for New Old Stock!  I invested A$4,700 upgrading the Garrard, which included a new main bearing and accessories like an ultrasonic cleaner, a second cartridge and replacement microline stylus.  I would rate the sound quality as equal to or slightly better than CD for classical music, but not as good as SACD which in my opinion blows away current streaming services!

I have just taken the next step, which is to buy a near-reference Holbo turntable which has air bearings for both its tangential tracking tone arm and its platter.  The factory direct price from Slovenia to Australia was under EUR-5000.  You seem to be in Europe so you might do better!

I buy new vinyl, along with SACD and CDs, from Presto Classical in the UK.  A big surprise is that I can buy secondhand classical records for about A$6 locally and with the microline stylus, they match new records for sound quality most of the time.  This stylus shape seems to bridge wear created by more rounded stylii.

From a review I have just read, your Arcam FMJ A32 amplifier seems to have an excellent MM/MC stage as standard, so there is no "pressing" need for another phono stage.  I use the MM phono stage in my Marantz AV8802 pre-processor although I have a Krell stereo pre-amplifier I can also use.

From where I float, in the middle of the South Pacific Ocean, North America and Europe are diametrically opposed in most things audio, especially when it comes to SACD versus streaming, cash available to splash, and the emphasis on "songs" versus "works"!

If I was conned into returning to vinyl, so be it, but I am still cautiously moving down that path.  Hope this helps ...

In todays audio systems there are options for a 1 Source, 2 Source, 3 Source set up.

Off which the Digital options are certainly the ones that require the least disciplines and take up the least real estate.

I am with a system that used both Vinyl and CD as a source, when it comes to the impression made from either as an End Sound, I get parity satisfaction produced  from both.

I am aware of the differences in the sound that are being produced when Vinyl is compared to CD, but the differences are just that, the music produced from either medium when allowed an extended play than that used for comparisons, quickly develops in to a sound that is totally acceptable and welcome.

For the above reasons, the notion of a third source, being a streaming design is not to be rejected. It is a open idea that will one day be realized.

A friends home I visit offers the option to listen to a recording using the above three sources, and the experience when compared again do show differences.