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What building my own speakers has taught me...

Hi Everyone,

After 8 years or so I have finally finished my "reference" speaker system.  I say eight years because what started as a small, high end 2-way has morphed into a 3-way active system.  Really happy with the results for myself... but I wanted to step back a little and reflect on the audio industry right now. 

First, I’m not here to convince you to DIY your next pair unless you NEED to build something.  And I’m not here to rail against the high price of gear, which does have some merit.   Mostly what I think about is how difficult it really is to make a business selling audio gear, and that I’m actually SHOCKED at how many companies attempt to do so, and even more when they thrive. 

Pricing out all the components in my speakers I come to a total parts cost.  Lets say it’s $1,000.  It could be $10, the actual amount doesn’t matter, but pretend it’s $1k. If I try to imagine "How would I take this product to market?"  I simply can’t get to a selling price under 15 to 20 times manufacturing cost. 

At the same time, the cost of the average "reference" speaker over the last 20 years has really skyrocketed, while the audio enthusiast market has dwindled.   Then along came HDMI whose ridiculous licensing and technical requirements seems to at least have been partially responsible for Meridian and Theta Digital dwindling from the market. 

I can’t imagine how hard it is for anyone besides say Sony or Harman or Samsung to be in the market for audio gear.  Increased costs, high competition, dwindling consumers.....  are we in a bubble or does every generation think "this is it, this is the end of high end audio?" 

erik_squires
erik_squires OP
17,544 posts
 

I would not buy any audio gear from a guy who made it in his garage, no matter how good it sounded. If something went wrong in a month that guy might tell  me to take a hike. Or, "Oh, yes, I’ll fix it. Just leave it here in the corner of my garage." Months go by, and you get the picture. 

@audio-b-dog

Well, I think you are misunderstanding my point.  I was not saying I should start a business, and you all should buy my DIY speakers. I was trying to say that running a profitable speaker business, or really ANY high-end audio business is hard as hell and I’m glad I don’t. 

Of course you can’t sell a speaker for the cost of the parts, no one can do that.  Even with books you can’t possibly sell them for the cost of the paper.  I only meant to share how big that gap is, between parts cost and what you have to sell it for exactly because of what it takes to keep the shop lights running. 

To yous your analogy however, given a choice between paying Oracle's per core licensing or installing PostgreSQL or MariaDB or even DuckDB for that matter and maintaining it myself I'm 100% not going to pay Oracle a dime. 

erik_squires OP
17,544 posts
 

@toddalin 

Do you realize that a set of "REAL" ESS AMTs sell for $560/pr and maybe a couple times a year (LIKE RIGHT NOW) they will list them for $250/pr, both with the mounting kits?  These factory sales go real fast and do not last!

Good to know but it would require a redesign, and honestly I don't have the right room for a dipole tweeter.  Also, honestly, dome tweeters are just SO much better now than they were in the 1980's and 1990s, I don't feel compelled to stick with AMTs.... though I like mine a lot.  

toddalin's avatar
toddalin
660 posts
 

I don't run them as a dipole.  I think that the rear wave bouncing all around willi-nilli hurts imaging.

 

Mine are modified so that the rear wave is reflected back through the diaphragm totally changing the frequency response and adding detail like you can't believe.

 

A couple pieces of foam placed behind takes care of any notable residual sound.

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/im-fixing-a-hole-heil.1025205/

devinplombier
1,670 posts
 

toddalin

The only thing I’ve found is this. Apparently it’s unavailable, and Pure Audio Project doesn’t answer emails.

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,392 posts
 

@erik_squires wrote:

What I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, is that the crossover type did not matter.  None of the alleged pluses/minuses about noise and distortion in one versus the other have appeared as I transitioned.  So I call all the prior debates on A’gon on one versus the other more or less bunk. 

At least that’s your experience and opinion, and it’s one that I don’t share. Being as it may the important part in the context of this thread of yours is that you’ve found the best way to configure your speakers, namely actively (for other reasons that you’ve specified). 

A good crossover is a good crossover regardless of active or passive, but of course, the power and dynamic range benefits of active are present, but in a modest living room, where I probably never put out more than 20 watts I don’t know if it will ever matter.   

I mean, yes, I can do the math and I can get 110 dB at 1m now, but ... will I care here?  Probably not. [...]

As they say: headroom is your friend - with all that implies. 

These are now my second major active project, and I can honestly say I don’t ever see myself making a passive crossover again.  It’s too big of a PITA, with too expensive parts and too much soldering/wiring.  The relative ease of designing with DSP crossovers has completely won me over with no real down sides.

In a DIY-context sitting in the listening chair/sofa and making filter adjustments on the fly on a laptop/tablet is a treat. From my chair though it’s not only about ease of use but as well the breadth of use of a DSP crossover that offers the user different means to actually improve on the sonic outcome vs. a passive filter and config. 

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