Bass speed not really. Woofer and midrange integration yes. Also, getting the time domain an phase correct is very important for sub integration. 😎 Here is a good article on the subject See link below: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm Subwoofer bass myths see here Mike |
with all due respect to any answers and not meaning to be disrespectful to anyone.... but there is only one answer to this question as driven in to me by one of my earliest mentors in this endeavor...and i've been at this quite awhile now...and realize i don't really know all that much, so i just go by my experiences so take it all with that in mind...but regardless.... the laws of physics can be manipulated in various ways, but will never change... the only way to properly reproduce low frequencies is to have a separately enclosed and powered subwoofer driver in its proper enclosure....of course placement and acoustics will dictate if the investment is worthwhile, as with all of this equipment...but looking for any other solution to proper low frequency reproduction....including mega buck and/or bigger speakers that have great bass, still don't provide the low frequency reproduction and impact that a separately enclosed and powered driver crossed over correctly for the system and the room...easy to prove, listen to any system with and without and you'll see..that's why many high end speaker companies also offer separate subwoofers, even with their highest end models...albeit some at ridiculous prices that a comparable Rythmik will be very close to their equal at much much less!...strangely enough high quality powered subs, even with dual xlr inputs that allow for great mixed system flexibility, aren't that expensive for even very high quality ..please don't leave the separate subwoofer out of your system if at all possible....evaluating any speakers at any price for low frequency reproduction without subwoofers is a necessary evil for all involved, but any and all speaker setups, bookshelf or floorstanding of any size will be so much more enjoyable with a properly placed and matched powered subwoofer..and leaving it off, no matter how much u think your bass is great, will never result in the same accurate low frequency reproduction as a separately enclosed and powered driver...and your enjoyment of music with well reproduced low frequencies present will be elevated to another level as you'll just then realize what u have been missing....even with your 5 figure floorstanders with several large woofers.... as always, just one man's opinion...yours may vary, as this is a sensitive subject for many "audiophiles"....as most want to justify why they don't need subwoofers, or just can't find a way to place one, or two or more, which may or may not be better...but again, u want proper low frequency reproduction get a separate subwoofer, at any system level, .... just be realize that there is a lot of source material with weak, little, or mediocre low frequencies, so don't blame the equipment if and when that and/or room issues lessen the ability to properly reproduce them! and...opinoins vary... |
my 02cents. it's all about the music. what you believe is right i.e. sounds what you think is correct, is the final answer. all who posted above are correct as to their opinion, in the end, how does it sound to you??
For me, I am a bass man. however, I hate too much bass, and I don't what to hear music that sounds thin. Thats why i run 2 x subs but not the large ones as they over pressurize the room again, what do you hear??? that is the answer. |
@sounds_real_audio wrote:
Reassuring, isn’t it? Well, arguably one can’t need what one has yet to experience firsthand. It’s how I got into this sub venture of mine, having an experience with a sub augmented main speaker setup that was something else than other setups with subs I’d heard, and one that actually had me convinced of the merits of using subs. It turned out to be an inspiration that had me build upon it in a direction that eventually suited my particular needs, and yet the basic parameters of high efficiency, large size and air displacement were untouched. That, in addition to a high quality DSP, amplification and overall integration is paramount, because you want a sub-assisted main speaker setup to be both more compared to a stand-alone solution as well as being a seamless sounding presentation at large. To be in a position where this outcome can be achieved I find it necessary, from above mentioned outset, to high-pass the main speakers just as you would low-pass your subs to properly "meet" them, preferably via the same high quality DSP with intricate filter settings incl. delay, slope type and steepness, gain, filter notches etc. in an outboard all-active configuration, and preferably via an outboard power amp that shares the same topology, overall quality and brand as that or the ones used over your main speakers. In other words: treat it like you would a single, coherent, physically uninhibited and discrete loudspeaker system per channel. Most subs as bundled solutions are asked to do from a physically stunted outset what ideally needs a much larger and more efficient package to maintain energy linearity down low. So, It isn’t only about handling room modes, acoustically and/or digitally via Digital Room Correction, but as well (and not least) accommodating blunt physics and size/displacement requirements. This, i.e.: the physical requirements, is the less popular aspect in audiophilia, even less so than using DRC, and it also goes to show why the sealed sub design (which is also the least efficient) is the most widespread solution; not because of the more or less blindly claimed improvement in impulse response, but simply because sealed subs are smaller, and because their (U)LF extension can be modified from a given enclosure volume - insofar the driver and amp permits. Using a DBA sub setup with multiple bass sources from smaller sealed subs can partially alleviate the physical inhibition, and for many the summed capacity here may be all that is required. From my chair though - again, once you’ve experienced the difference it can do - there’s no way around properly intergrated, large and efficient subs. Moreover, to my ears an asymmetrically placed and mono’ed DBA sub setup sounds like "headphone bass." Impressive it may be in some respects, and the evenness of the freqeuncy response it can produce is also a positive takeaway, but natural sounding bass it isn’t - or at least I haven’t heard it yet. I’d go to great lengths to ensure a symmetrically to the mains placed dual sub setup from above "recipe" is properly integrated. |
"I guess if I get a sub or two my quest for a very good sound system will be over...thank god." @sounds_real_audio HaHaHa... I hope your right and not just wandering in another tunnel in your Rabbit Hole. BTW, I haven't gotten motivated enough to approach the sub placement or settings with an acoustic analyzer as I am very satisfied with just putting the subs where I want them in general and tweaking the crossover and input levels to MY TASTE. I think you should consider adding the subs, enjoy the improvement and recognize that doing the acoustic analysis and attempts at room correction as a separate tunnel for another day. |
