1. Home
  2. analog
  3. 155603-92835

2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238
thekong
251 posts
 

@ledoux1238 , as far as I understand, a majority of belt drive TTs utilising AC motors use dual-phase motors. As the name implies, these motors require two signals of different phases (90° apart I believe) to drive the motor. The cheaper way to implement this is to use a phase splitting cap to generate the second phase signal to drive the motor. While this works, it is less smooth comparing to a dual phase motor controller, which generates the 2 different phase signals separately! Some top belt drive TTs, such as the Rockport Sirius II, the Final using by Dover, as well as Basis’ top models utilise dual phase AC controllers. Basis also offers their dual phase controller as optional upgrades for their lower models.

 

The TechDas Airforce Zero, utilising a 3-phase motor, actually has a 3-phase controller and three 50W power amplifiers (one per phase) to drive the motor!

dover
2,503 posts
 

@thekong 

The TechDas Airforce Zero, utilising a 3-phase motor, actually has a 3-phase controller and three 50W power amplifiers (one per phase) to drive the motor!

As you pointed out my Final uses both a sine and cosine wave generator preamplifier feeding a stereo power amp to drive the motor. As well as infinite speed adjustment on both speeds independently it has the provision to continuously vary the amount of torque supplied to the motor.

Originally it used Stax D80 monos to drive the motor, but since then I’ve used Bryston monos (custom) , Rowlands - each amplifier imparts its own sound. Currently I use an Onix Audio OA60 to drive the motor - it has a fully regulated power supply internally. Importantly because you are amplifying sine/cosine waves cables make a huge difference. I am using MIT Oracle interconnects and speaker cables in the wiring loom from controller to power amp to motor for my TT motor supply. The phase coherency superiority of these cables in the TT power supply are quite audible.

 

mr_gray
188 posts
 

@dover do u reckon the SOTA motor and speed control unit would be worth having a crack at?  third price of galibier and ac sort of floats my boat.

 

@ledoux1238 nice to have the OP back in the thread.  in some ways i am beginning to idolise the sound (not functionality!) of the old motor.  the ac is so locked in it is a bit like a CD player.  with the DC motor, when the planets aligned, it was sensuous.  now it is utterly spectacular and i can really hear these artists and the system is doing a better job of projecting the sound possibly but maybe it is a little less.  all i really know is i want more progression.  i have had so much improvement and the sound now is so resolved and yet juicy with energy and incredible lifelikeness - a band being recreated to play the music - not the music being played back.  the la platine has so much to give! soon i will have cable risers and i will have new speaker plugs and this will pacify my need for improvement for a bit but i am getting very close to installing the fr64s for a spell and shaking things up.  

what i would really like to do is buy a wellfloat double for the turntable.  i think that could be really good.  but i also wonder if the more transparency i get the more i will hear the slight woodenness i am getting a whiff of (which might be the AC motor compromised as it is).

richardkrebs
438 posts
 
@thekong

While the quality of the three phase drive in the Techdas is certainly very good, a three phase drive utilizing a generator and three amplifiers is very common. Virtually every DD TT has this architecture, going way back to the 80s. Some of these, of course, are pretty rudimentary 

The prime reason for using a 3 phase motor is that, properly built and driven, it delivers virtually linear torque.  This because of the overlapping nature of three phases separated by 120 degrees. In contrast a 2 phase motor does not produce linear torque This is why they are common in belt and thread drives, where the torque peturbulations are at least partially reduced by the drive decoupling. They also cost less. 

Note, cogging due to stator pole piece design is a separate issue. This can be eliminated where slotless/coreless designs are used. 

thekong
251 posts
 

@richardkrebs , thank you for the information! In such case, maybe it would be interesting to use one of those DD motors for BD? 

More to discover