We Need To Talk About Ones And Zeroes

So much basic misinformation here!

I beseech you to understand what the word streaming means in digital networks, and how it differs from file transfers.  At its simplest, streaming prioritises getting something out (timeliness), over getting it right.  With streaming it is OK if some packets go missing, or get horribly corrupted, as long as there is a more or less steady stream of packets.

I beseech you to understand the difference between Internet Protocol (IP), Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and User Datagram Protocol (UDP). 

IP deals with basic network addressing.  TCP works on top of IP and includes error detection and recovery, guaranteeing accurate delivery of messages and files but not timeliness. A TCP/IP transfer is not complete until the entire message has been transmitted, checked and corrected.  If you want to 'stream' using TCP/IP without packet loss, you cannot start playback until the 'stream' has completed.  In other words, the stream has become a file transfer!

UDP also works on top of IP but does not guarantee delivery.  In general, UDP/IP is the protocol used for streaming, because it does not bother to stop and ask for retransmission.  Think about multicasting where a single stream is fed to a large number of receivers.  Not all receivers will get exactly the same packets because of transmission losses, which are not individually corrected!

I also beseech you to understand that Ethernet, on its own, does not guarantee packet delivery any more than pigeon post offers a delivery guarantee.  Sure, most pigeons will get home most of the time, but some sometimes get lost, get picked off by hawks, get shot down, or die on the wing.

On top of all this, even USB does not guarantee accuracy when streaming.  I recently posted in another thread:

From Wikipedia USB - Wikipedia

"As of 2024, USB consists of four generations of specifications: USB 1.x, USB 2.0, USB 3.x, and USB4."

So there is no such single thing as USB.  It is no longer even Serial!  There are now nine families of USB connectors.  For example, the USB-C connector has 24 pins and looks more like the purpose designed HDMI which is Parallel and eschews data packets.

USB was never designed for error-free streaming.

• A stream pipe is a uni-directional pipe connected to a uni-directional endpoint that transfers data using an isochronous,^[69] interrupt, or bulk transfer:

Isochronous transfers

At some guaranteed data rate (for fixed-bandwidth streaming data) but with possible data loss (e.g., realtime audio or video)

Interrupt transfers

Devices that need guaranteed quick responses (bounded latency) such as pointing devices, mice, and keyboards

Bulk transfers

Large sporadic transfers using all remaining available bandwidth, but with no guarantees on bandwidth or latency (e.g., file transfers)

Note the implications here.  Audiophiles often believe that because files and messages can be transferred error-free, that implies streams are error-free.  They aren't, but you do get your errors for free.

All of this is over my head but my lying eyes don't deceive me. Blu Ray players are head and shoulders above streaming. Period. From AI Overview:

Streaming services use compression techniques (like HEVC/H.265) to reduce file sizes and bandwidth usage, which can lead to some data loss. Blu-ray players, especially 4K, use less aggressive compression (H.264/AVC) to preserve more details. 
Streaming services typically use lower bitrates (data transmission rate) than Blu-ray players. For example, a 4K Blu-ray might have a bitrate of 40-70 Mbps, while a streaming service might only offer 10-25 Mbps.
Due to lower bitrates and more aggressive compression, streaming can sometimes show more visible compression artifacts, like banding, blocking, or a loss of detail in dark or fast-moving scenes. Blu-ray, with its higher bitrates and less compression, generally produces a clearer, sharper, and more detailed image.
Blu-ray often includes lossless audio formats (like DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD), which provide better sound quality than the compressed audio formats used in streaming (like Dolby Digital Plus) according to Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum (of all sources).
Blu-ray discs can store significantly more data than a streaming service. A standard 1080p Blu-ray can hold up to 50GB, while a 4K Blu-ray can hold up to 100GB.Streaming services, on the other hand, compress the video into much smaller files, often in the range of 10-13GB for a 4K movie.
 

The argument that a Ferrari doesn't turn blue for a moment is specious. What streaming does is change the color tone from something like Rosso Barchetta to Rosso Berlinetta or Rosso Cino or even worse, Rosso Corsa. 

When streaming audio, there's really no doubt that all the packets get there in time and in order but that's a numbers game. That's all that's being discussed and relies on everyone to just take their word for it as they can hear the difference.The signal in a CDP isn't compressed and travels a matter of inches while the streamed version is compressed and then uncompressed and travels around the world. 

This numbers game presupposes that the resultant sound is not in the least affected when compressed and uncompressed and focuses only on the numbers. That's the very definition of a red herring:

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion.

How many here jumped on the MQA bandwagon only to see it shot down? That compression scheme corrupted the sound. How many are fully invested in streaming and find the need to validate it to others? There are so many previous threads on this that, in the end, went nowhere. Both sides stayed put. 

A casual search on the internet shows more contradictions to arguments for streaming not being brought up but well known to those who can rattle off numbers and protocols like there's no tomorrow. It's in threads like this that one can find consensus to put forth their arguments without fear of being challenged. I certainly don't have the chops for that but there are so many recording engineers online that say otherwise as well but they rarely frequent sites like this. Some have in the past and when they do, the thread goes silent for awhile and then gathers momentum, picking up where it left off with the hopes of not hearing from them again. 

It's not that those who prefer CDs and better quality endpoint devices think there's magic in our choices though we are told that.  It's the ones who say that a compressed signal can travel through a dirty and noisy chain and remain its virgin self when uncompressed that abide by magic.  

All the best,
Nonoise

It seems to me, and in this bunch there is someone who will correct me if they think I am wrong... :) IT seems to me that there are very few things that determine the accuracy of the played signal out of our streamers. Number one is the source file. How good was it? SACD or at the other end an mp3 file? And then at the end of the digital transmission chain is the accuracy of the DAC that we use to decode the digital file and finally then our playback equipment...amplifier and speakers or headphones. Everything else in the middle is basically the same for everyone. Its all ones and zeros with error correction built in. So that part is the same for everyone. The difference is truly in our playback equipment and I am going out on a limb and say any audible differences within today's DACs are negligible and surely well below the threshold of hearing and definitively well below my ability to discern the differences. And even if I COULD hear the difference between my 329 dollar DAC and a 30,000 dollar DAC, my common sense and budget dictates I buy the 329 dollar unit. I know there are those here that could and would buy the 30k unit but I also suspect the reasons for doing so go above and beyond perceived better performance. Any of you guys going to admit to a leaning towards buying something for its looks? I have done so in the past...and probably will again. Any takers?

 The other glaring variable in resolution is antique coaxial internet service versus fiber optic or microwave mesh. At my old house I was limited to coaxial and it was not pretty. The technician told me he had a job for life replacing coax connectors under the sidewalk. They lose continuity like clock work in summer heat.