2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

This has/is been an excellent thread!

i recently acquired a Granito La Platine coming from a highly optimised Garrard 401.  i have a few thoughts:

- La Platine has alot to offer.  absolutely grainless.  absolute resolution. alot more music frankly

- defeating suspension makes for an extraordinary analytical turntable but kills some of the music

- tiniest thread possible quite loose and all speed stability issues are dealt with

- it is a tweakers table.  constantly checking speed, level etc

- i am feeding the motor with a Paul Hynes SR4 Turbo LPS - wow!  huge improvement in speed stability from this - also i finally have an elevated purpose for this LPS i bought many years ago

- Wow and Flutter 0.06/0.02 respectively

- very light oil used.  maybe not light enough.

- i have the Acoustical Systems SDP decoupling platter thing.  don't know any different but seems to be good

- i put the motor on vibration absorbers - helped alot but so did DC conversion

- am thinking of ripping motor out of garrard 401 and using that with LDA regulator as i think Dover has a point re: AC motors.

- having said that the original motor right now sounds fantastic

- i can compare the La Platine to a Garrard 401, a Technics 1210GR and an Audio Note TT3.  the la platine doesn't have the drive of the tt3 or 401.  but it is stable like the 401 and very low noise like the tt3.  great dynamics.  intensely musical/human somehow.  the 401 was my happy place with all of its thunder.  but i think the la platine has some thunder but also it has alot of delicacy and sweetness.  it gently lays the art out and i think it is very interesting/arresting to hear.

@mr_gray Thank you for the concise summary of your experience with the La Platine. 

I have a few questions:

1. Are you listening to the turntable with the suspension defeated? When you say that it sounds more ‘analytical’ without suspension, my interpretation is that the sound becomes more precise and sure footed. There are those who feel that the suspension is an integral part of how the La Platine works. But for the past two years I have listened to it without suspension. I don’t feel that doing so compromises its musicality, but we all hear differently.

2. What kind of thread are you using? When you apply the thread ‘ quite loose’, how loose? I use pure silk and viscose threads. And there has to be some tension involved. With these kinds of threads, you cannot apply too much or they’ll just come loose. But when I pluck on the threads, they are definitely reverberating. If there are ‘loose’, I cannot keep the correct speed. 

3. How are you connecting the LPS to the motor unit? You also mentioned DC conversion, not quite sure how you can do both? The motor’s speed control did eventually give way last year. And I replaced the LM 317t ( a regulating chip ? ). When it was being serviced, I used another motor + belt combination for a few months. I am now much more appreciative of the original motor’s ability. Yes, it requires constant tweaking, but the stock motor is good. 

Your comparison to the 401 and AN TT3 is very informative. And the timing of your post is uncanny. I was just looking into a possible second TT. And the two turntables I was researching yesterday was a 401 and a Voyd which the TT3 is based on, I think, good to know your thoughts. 

The problem with the Verdier motors that the spindle was never designed for side loads that the belt exerts. Some turntable manufacturers get a bearing inserted to help with the side loading, some don't.

My Verdier motor was very noisy, and even building a clamping device inside the motor housing so I could minimise motor noise did not resolve this issue.

Of course motors like the Garrard and others have proper spindle and bronze bushes that are much more stable. I have an old Pioneer/Exclusive broadcast idler that has a motor twice the size of the Garrard and is quieter. It even has separate brazed brass oil lines from the top plate to the top and bottom bearing so that they can be oiled in situ. I keep this in case the motor on my reference TT ever dies.

If I still had my Verdier An all in one solution worth looking at would be the Sota Eclipse system - off the shelf and modestly priced. Its quite a bit better than many turntable standard supplies in some unnamed  ( quite expensive ) TT's.

@ledoux1238 thanks for your words.

i have had some advice from a very experienced la platine user on WBF (@mtemur) and so things may change.  also i am currently ill and this affects my hearing.  it is just  cold so a day or 2 and it will be fine but this could have impacted what i perceived recently.

in any case to respond to your queries.

1.  i have removed the footers i was using.  i had CMS speaker footers under it.  it sounded extraordinarily measured with footers.  polite.  formal.  stiff.  no fun.  i accept other footers might be a better choice.  i used the CMS speaker footers because they easily adjust up and down being leveraged.  and they sound great with speakers.  i think their maker wouldn't endorse the way i've used them here.  my sense was that when i first played the la platine as i received it from germany and the previous owner with a fr64s and modified denon 103 cart and no tweaks or oil, that it sounded quite sublime.  i'm not sure anything i've done since then has helped.

2.  viscose thread.  have used waxed floss.  have used a thicker "yarn".  have used my tt3 belt as well.  everything sounds like what it is.  so the tt3 belt which is rubberish and flat and wide made the verdier sound alot like the tt3 to my ears (which as i noted at start may not be at their best), i.e sort of thick and unrelenting like its made of plastic.  viscose thread sounds best late at night (2 am) when the power is clean.  music hangs in the air.  one can hear very much the timing characteristics of different belts.  tight rubber one had great drive with a certain elasticity.  with thread i can hear it slowing down as it plays.  this adds to a certain appeal i think but mainly late at night.  opposite of garrard 401 thunder.  waxed floss was good but seemed to heat and then disintegrate a bit.  less romance with floss (could hear its relatively stiffness).  i think i can hear the viscose thread stretch too.  i do find it needs to be somewhat tight the viscose thread for me to make speed.  the floss on the other hand could be almost falling off.  i want to try silk.  but mtemur recommends transrotor belt.  i have ordered that.  i have also ordered EPDM based belts as per a recommendation by another chap on here.  i have bought the gold note deluxe (EPDM) and epdm o-rings from ebay.  we will see what we get.  mtemur says he has speed variation down to one quarter of what i am achieving (i am 0.2 rpm variation at best).

3.  re: motor i may be using wrong terms as i barely know what i am doing.  i opened motor and snipped tx output and connected my LPS 12V DC output to the wires.  so i still get to change my speed the normal way etc.  this did reduce my speed variation.  the sound is good to me, i think i can hear the improvement. but it is less romantic somehow and i wonder if this isn't the same sort of change i got from footers.  that is, more hifi, but not actually better.  my touchstone is linda ronstadt when i first fired up the la platine.  it shocked me how much resolution i could hear but also how much delicate flesh there was on her voice.

re: turntables right now i am wondering if i should keep either the tt3 or 401.  the tt3 is very set and forget.  the 401 is, like the la platine, a tinkerers paradise.  the 401 is more stable than the tt3.  the tt3 is more engaging and beguiling than the 401.  the 401 is monumental when on song.   but having everything carved out in marble for you can get tedious.