Linn Bedrok LP12 Plinth Upgrade

@daveyf

There’s just one more thing in relation to what you say above.

It’s not a straight choice between upgrading a Klimax LP12 to Bedrok or selling it to buy another brand of turntable. I would suggest that a far more likely option for most owners is merely to stick with the Klimax LP12.

Anyone who’s actually heard the current Klimax LP12, particularly with the synergy it has in an appropriate Linn Exakt system, would be aware that this is bound to be the default position.

Whatever the competition may be, this is still an amazing sounding turntable. Miles better than it was even a few years ago before Karousel, etc.

People don’t just became dissatisfied with their turntables overnight because a new upgrade has become available.

In any case, selling it to buy another brand of turntable is unlikely to be a cost effective option.

@newton_john Again, your post is not really my point. I’m sure you are correct that if a LP12 Klimax owner is currently happy with his table, he won’t be selling it, and certainly not at a loss. Plus, like you mention, the Klimax LP12 is an excellent table. But for those who are looking at the upgrade path, as the expense of upgrades increases to the point where the competition looks better and better, then my point is that a consumer who is well educated on what the competition offers and on the turntable market in general, will certainly look elsewhere. Whether that consumer will pull the trigger on an alternate option is the chance that Linn is apparently willing to take. Personally, and I think I have mentioned this before, at the price of the Bedrok upgrade, plus the cost I have already attributed to my Linn, I would be shopping the used market...and maybe even the new market at higher prices. I do feel that the Linn LP12 Majik has a very good appeal to the new buyer who is looking for an entry point into the high end market of tables. BUT, at $40K plus for the LP12 Klimax with Bedrok..or even at the $60K that is/was being asked for the LP12 50th, then as a consumer,if those prices are affordable, I would also most likely not have an affordability issue with a table that was say $100K. This brings into question a factor that I question whether Linn’s marketing arm has anticipated??

@daveyf

“@newton_john Again, your post is not really my point.”

It is hard to pin down what your point is.

“I’m sure you are correct that if a LP12 Klimax owner is currently happy with his table, he won’t be selling it, and certainly not at a loss. Plus, like you mention, the Klimax LP12 is an excellent table.”

So far so good.

“But for those who are looking at the upgrade path, as the expense of upgrades increases to the point where the competition looks better and better, then my point is that a consumer who is well educated on what the competition offers and on the turntable market in general, will certainly look elsewhere.”

Not necessarily so. As the price of the upgrades increases, so does the performance. Surely, by adding the Bedrok to its range of products, Linn decreases the chances of a Klimax LP12 owner looking towards other brands.

“Whether that consumer will pull the trigger on an alternate option is the chance that Linn is apparently willing to take.”

That is just the nature of the free market.

“Personally, and I think I have mentioned this before, at the price of the Bedrok upgrade, plus the cost I have already attributed to my Linn, I would be shopping the used market...and maybe even the new market at higher prices.”

And personally, I will be sticking with my current turntable and maybe do the Utopik for Radikal upgrade when it comes. But what you and I would do is not necessarily representative of the market in general.

“I do feel that the Linn LP12 Majik has a very good appeal to the new buyer who is looking for an entry point into the high end market of tables.”

Agreed. The Majik LP12 appears to be Linn’s loss-leader to pull new people into the LP12, so they have more owners to sell upgrades to in future. There’s a much larger pool of potential buyers at this level than there is for turntables as expensive as a new Klimax LP12.

“BUT, at $40K plus for the LP12 Klimax with Bedrok..or even at the $60K that is/was being asked for the LP12 50th, then as a consumer,if those prices are affordable, I would also most likely not have an affordability issue with a table that was say $100K. This brings into question a factor that I question whether Linn’s marketing arm has anticipated??”

You’ve lost me here. Are you saying that someone who can afford $40K is just as likely to spend $100? I would doubt that – it is a massive jump. It remains to be seen whether the Bedrok becomes a success for Linn. However, the LP12-50 did sell.

"Are you saying that someone who can afford $40K is just as likely to spend $100? I would doubt that – it is a massive jump. It remains to be seen whether the Bedrok becomes a success for Linn. However, the LP12-50 did sell."

That is exactly what I am saying. If a hobbyist is willing to pull the trigger at a price of $40K or $60K then yes, I am pretty certain that this very same hobbyists can afford a $100K for a turntable. Otherwise they probably shouldn’t be pulling the trigger on these LP12’s in the first place.

One question...and I think this is maybe where we differ: At what price do you decide that the upgrade cost of the LP12 is a bridge too far? IOW, the cost to acquire the latest and greatest Linn upgrade now puts it squarely in competition with a table that you suspect betters the platform in all ways ( maybe even in most ways)

My question does assume that you have knowledge of what the competition offers, something that I am unsure whether you ( maybe most UK based Linnies?), or for that matter Linn themselves, are truly cognizant of!

As an example of this...again look at what @yoyoyaya  posted above. Just one example of many.

@daveyf

“That is exactly what I am saying. If a hobbyist is willing to pull the trigger at a price of $40K or $60K then yes, I am pretty certain that this very same hobbyists can afford a $100K. Otherwise they probably shouldn’t be pulling the trigger on either.”

The $60K LP12-50 is history now and it did sell to people who’d didn’t spend $100K. It is a bold claim that a customer with £40K to spend on an LP12 is likely to suddenly decide to lash out an extra $60K on top of that. In any case, these customers are extremely rare. To say that they don’t walk into the average HiFi store every day would be a vast understatement. My dealer said that has never happened to him. Every single one of them is an individual case, so we can’t generalise about them.

“One question...and I think this is maybe where we differ: At what price do you decide that the upgrade cost of the LP12 is a bridge too far?”

How long is a piece of string?

“IOW, the cost to acquire the latest and greatest Linn upgrade now puts it squarely in competition with a table that you suspect betters the platform in all ways ( maybe even in most ways)”

What does IOW stand for? Not Isle of Wight, I presume. As I have said before, that puts an improved configuration of the LP12 into a new market segment. This can’t possibly mean less sales for Linn.

“My question does assume that you have knowledge of what the competition offers, something that I am unsure whether you ( maybe most UK based Linnies?), or for that matter Linn themselves, are truly cognizant of!”

I am confident that most people who have bought a turntable that they are happy with don’t waste time researching hypothetical alternatives. If you’d seen Linn’s factory and met Gilad and the other people there, you’d realise that they will most definitely have researched their markets. If they didn’t do that, they would have come a cropper years or even decades ago.