Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?

How many maximal dB do we need for classical, rock, jazz music?

It looks like the distortions from 50Watt heat on the speaker's voice coil and crossover parts should be much more horrible then 10% SET distortion on maximal power distortions. 

@alexberger The point isn't to use all that power! In the best installations, the amplifier should be loafing. No matter what kind of amp you have, the harder you make it work for a living the more distortion it will make. IOW the point is to make clean power at normal listening levels. When its clean, it won't sound 'loud'.

I don’t agree with them, for one very important reason, this is a hobby, it’s so much fun to explore, it’s not have people tell you you won’t like something when in fact, if your like me or many others, you actually will.

@yaluaka The stuff I said about SETs having troubles with bass (there are other problems too but I'm focusing on just this one for this post) is very real. I certainly agree that the exploration can be quite fun (I've built a number of SETs since the early 1990s and did it solely for that reason). But the engineering issue about bass has been known for many decades (google 'elliptical load line' and you'll see what I'm talking about). That is why I said that the most successful SET installations (and some of the most avid SET lovers I know) have some means to keep bass out of the SET. When you do that the mids and highs get a lot better! Its not subtle.

Atmasphere your viewpoint in this discussion repetitively shuts down people learning and exploring. The whole discussion about bass, about distortion, and many of the other salient points you’ve raised, while one hand accurate, are on the other hand wholly irrelevant. Distortion for instance is a tonal color. It is not a bugaboo though I’m sure many audiophiles think it is. Maybe there’s not as much bass etc, but for me the way to listen to music, is to listen to music not equipment. Listen, don’t analyze. I find tube triodes to give me immense musical pleasure despite their drawbacks. I’ve learned long ago that a non audiophile approach to musical listening, not comparing things, not worrying about specs, not thinking about perfection but instead listening to music is for me how I get the most pleasure out of this hobby. 

That is why I said that the most successful SET installations (and some of the most avid SET lovers I know) have some means to keep bass out of the SET. When you do that the mids and highs get a lot better! Its not subtle.

I could easily do this as I already have a Marchand XM44. Hmmm... 

@hilde45 

Getting to this party late, but my experience over the last year is exactly what you are considering doing.

I bought an Elekit 300B amp already built (the 8600S with Lundahl transformers and Mundorf Supreme coupling capacitors) to try on a lark. At that point I had Wilson Sabrina speakers driven by a Modwright KWA 150SE amp (150 watts into 8 ohms). Tried the Elekit amp with the Sabrinas, knowing this was a mismatch, and was blown away by the sound. 

Thus the quest continued. At this point I now have two SET systems. One with Spatial Audio X3 speakers (97 dB sensitivity) driven by an Aric Audio 300B SET amp, and one with Charney Audio Maestro speakers with Voxativ AC-2.6 full range drivers (98 dB sensitivity) driven by an Air Tight 300B SET amp. 

It is important to note, as Ralph alluded to above, that both systems have auxiliary subwoofers. The Spatial X5's have 12" bass drivers with separate on-board Class D amplification, and the Charney Maestros are augmented with two SVS subwoofers crossed over at 100 dB.

But, both systems sound better than any of the many other systems I have put together. Not just in my opinion, but in the opinion of friends who listened to both the current SET systems and my previous higher powered systems. And, no disrespect to Ralph, both systems measure better in my rooms than my previous systems, based on measurements using REW software.

Lastly, although I started with a kit amplifier (which I still have), to my ears both the Aric Audio and Air Tight amplifiers are superior. Of course, the Aric and Air Tight amps were more than twice the price even when purchased used.

So, my advice is go forward! For two reasons: as stated above, because that is what this hobby is all about, but also because you may end up with the best sounding system you have yet to find.

Good luck!

GAR

Hilde45:

My long term experience is with an Audion Silver Night DH/SET 300B amp and my currently owned/early DH/SET 2A3 Bottlehead kits.

I’ve also tried (@ home) an early "single ended" Decware amp (EL84/6922 I think), an Audion "single ended" EL34 based amp and a few vintage "single ended" EL84 based amps (Magnavox and one "stamped" RCA that may have been of Japanese manufacture).

If you want to try single ended (not DH/SET) cheap look into the current model SE Coincident EL34 based integrated amp.

Good reviews, less expensive tubes (even for really good ones) and there’s a used one for sale a 30 minute drive from Denver (you know the place).

I’m not familiar with contemporary Bottlehead (my amps are 20+ years old), but the reviews are good.

I’ve looked into Elekit and would go with the better Lundahl (sp?) OT upgrade, but I’m not certain if they have PT’s for 115AC as most listed are for 100 (the vendor in Canada could answer this).

Anyway, try it is my rec as I’ve enjoyed my meager DH/SET setup (no highs/tweeters - no lows/woofers) for the past 20+ years.

PS:

On the really cheap (just single ended/not DH/SET) Musical Paradise has a little integrated SE amp for $500, or so.

I would buy it from the local vendor (think he’s in Canada).

DeKay