Active Speakers Don't Sound Better


I just wanted to settle a debate that has often raged in A’gon about active vs. passive speakers with my own first hand experience. I’ve recently had the chance to complete a 3-way active center channel to match my 2-way passive speakers.

I can absolutely say that the active nature of the speaker did not make it sound better. Or worse. It has merged perfectly with my side speakers.

What I can say is that it was much easier to achieve all of the technical design parameters I had in mind and that the speakers have better off-axis dispersion as a result, so it is measurably slightly better than if I had done this as a passive center. Can I hear it? I don’t think so. I think it sounds the same.

From an absolute point of view, I could have probably achieved similar results with a passive speaker, but at the cost of many more crossover stages and components.  It was super easy to implement LR4 filters with the appropriate time delays, while if I had done this passively it would require not just the extra filter parts but all pass filters as well.  A major growth in part counts and crossover complexity I would never have attempted.  So it's not like the active crossover did any single thing I couldn't do passively, but putting it all together was so much easier using DSP that it made it worthwhile.

I can also state that as a builder it was such a positive experience that I may very well be done with making passive speakers from now on.

 

All the best,

 

Erik

erik_squires

@o_holter wrote:

I have not tried top of the line active speakers. Only mid level and below. But my experience is this: take the ’passive’ speaker from a pair of active speakers. Instead of the output from the amp in the active speaker, give it the output of a good amp (in my case, the amp in my main rig).

Result - to my ears, it usually sounds much better! So I am sad, reconnecting it to the so-so amp in the other speaker.

Comment?

What’re the technicalities of your experience/experiment here? I mean, what do you do filter-wise with the active speakers once you’ve stripped them to a passive state - fit them with passive crossovers between the amp and drivers instead, or use the existing DSP and then combine it with your own external amp + 2 more amp channels if it’s a 2-way design?

Let’s say it’s a 2-way speaker you’d want to keep actively configured, then you would need to add another of your preferred stereo amp (one for each driver section), somehow use the existing DSP and your once active speaker with built-in amps and DSP has now been retrofitted by-passing their internal amps and re-configured actively with amps of your choosing. Is that the way of it?

@erik_squires wrote:

@o_holter

You make exactly the right argument for an external, active crossover. If you want to roll your own amps you can’t do this with a fully active speaker design.

Wrong. A fully active speaker design can be done fitting it all into the speaker as well as having the amps and DSP external to it. Semantically you wouldn’t call the latter an active speaker per se because its amp and DSP components are external to it, but insofar the crossover function via the DSP is done prior to the amplification on signal level (and they’re no passive crossover parts between the amps and drivers) and the respective amp channel are connected directly to their driver sections, it’s a fully actively configured speaker design. Period, end of f*cking story.

Fully actively one can use any external amp one sees fit, as long as you have enough of them to cover the respective driver sections. You would of course need an external DSP as well (again: prior to amplification on signal level, and sans passive XO parts for it to be called fully active), the real challenge being setting filter values - certainly if they’re done on your own. Or, a manufacturer could set the filter values just as they would, basically, a passive crossover - like ATC (electronic, analogue XO), Bryston, Sanders Sound, JBL etc. - and provide them as part of the design one way of the other. The ATC SCM300 Pro ASL’s, and others, have power amps and electronic XO/DSP external to the speakers, but that doesn’t make them any less actively configured.

@erik_squires Wrote:

Active Speakers Don’t Sound Better

They do at my house!

In my experience, when I horizontally bi-amped my speakers with an active analog crossover design by the same manufacturer (of the speakers) it brought my speakers two notches above the passive crossover in sound quality. There were lots of improvements with an active crossover, four that stood out the most were better dynamics and transient response in the bass, highs were cleaner and better delineated, the sound was more live sounding then recorded. All amplifiers and active crossovers are external of the speakers. In my opinion, amps inside speakers is not a good idea because the amps are subject to all the vibrations and air pressure and stray electromagnetic fields from the drivers inside the speaker cabinet. I guess I’m not a passive guy. LOL See here. 😎

A bit of history for the fun of it, the first powered and active speakers from JBL 1959-64 Hartfield and Paragon see here.

 

@donquichotte

I have both SCM20 passive and active and also SCM150 passive and active.

The preamps are Mcintosh C1100 and the amps are MC1.25KW for the 150s and MC462 for the 20. The DAC is MSB Premier and all Cardas cables. I can tell you that ATC speakers love power.

 

the comparison is that (at least to my ears) the passives are in every aspect better except that the actives are ever so slightly more detailed.

 

 

I hear a lot of comments about vibration, and while I have had equipment that was subject to microphonics, that was in the late 1980s and probably because of the use of very cheap ceramic capacitors. I think that overall, outside of tubes and turntables, the subjects is a bogey man without a shred of evidence. It’s a real shame because honestly it’s super easy to test for. I mean, super easy. And I’ve yet to see anyone produce a credible study that vibrations or isolation of solid state gear matters.

Please put me down as a complete skeptic until someone has any sort of study showing any piece of solid state gear has microphonics.  I'm definitely not going to worry about a separate enclosure housing  an amp.

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