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ultrasound record cleaning machine damaged my records

I recently purchased an ultrasound record cleaning machine. For reasons which I hope you understand I won’t name brands, because I am not wanting to make bad publicity to anyone but to discuss the matter. 

Previously, I had anather ultrasound machine which broke. I cleaned more than a 1000 records with it, with no concerns at all. The machine broke and, due to its steep price, I decided to go for a less costly solution. 

With the new machine I cleaned 7 records. One of themLeonard Cohen’s “New Skin for the old ceremony”. When listening to “Chelsea Hote”, I remarked a distortion that wasn’t there before. IT was clear on the low notes, like the instrument being out of focus or vibrating. I had some old very worn records which had that problem due to bad stylus. At first I started to think that there was a problem with the stylus of my Lyra Atlas. So I went to another version of the same album I have at home, to check if there was a problem with the stylus. Clean passage. No problem at all. 

As on the previous cleaned record I noticed a similar problem, not so apparent, I decided to clean the second version of the LP on the new machine. Playing it i heard  the same distortion on the same music. Checking out all the 7 records I cleaned, I heard issues on all of them, some less apparent ( the mono ones) and some more appparent. 

I couldn’t believe it but the new machine was damaging my records. 

The combination of my atlas and my SME 312 arm gives some “needle talk” - music heard when with everything muted you put your hear next to the stylus on the record. Doing it, I heard the same rumble distortion that was being amplified by the system. 

 

I used distilled water (not a new one but one which was opened for the previous machine) but it was clear clean. I put the exact amount of surfactant liquid on the mixture of distilled water. I kept all the operating instruction rules. I don’t understand what is wrong, but the fact is this machines damages the grooves on the record. 

 

Does anyone had this problem before? Any help provided?

 

Note: I already contacted the dealer who sold it  and I am going to see him next week. It is a very good a solid dealer.  It I’d like to hear your opinion. 

 

Best regards,

pfmaudio
pfmaudio's avatar
pfmaudio OP
19 posts
 

@antinn,

thanks for your feedback. The only time I had no trouble was when I used the new distilled water with no cleaning fluid (the small bottle, of the same brand). However, it was with an old record, to which I listened before and after, without detecting differences. On old records there are always things we hear and it was a record that I didn’t listen to for a long time. I am 99% sure there were no issues. But not 100%. However, I didn’t hear the king of distortion present on the other records. 
 When I used the old distilled water only, the results were a disaster. 
When I used the new distilled water bottle with 2 drops of cleaning fluid, I  got bad results, but it was subtle. Only at the fourth track I could be pretty sure. On the 3 previous tracks there was perhaps a veil which prevented me to immerse on the music. But it was vague enough for me to admit there might be a psychological effect. However, on the fourth track, it was unmistakable. 
so perhaps you’re right and the problem is on the cleaning solution. The problem is that I don’t want to risk more records…

Do you think doubling the drying time can help to remove the eventual residue?

I’ll keep you informed of further developments. 
 

best regards,

pfmaudio's avatar
pfmaudio OP
19 posts
 

Meanwhile, my dealer contacted HummingGuru and got the following email. 
 

“Regarding the issue mentioned by this customer, to be honest, we have not received any reports/feedback about such an issue. We assume that the record he cleaned using the HumminGuru is an album released in 1968 from Columbia records. In our testing base, we have cleaned many records from around that period, including from Columbia Records releases, and we have not detected any similar issue. The current vinyl pressing technology, raw materials, and compression molds used was established before that period, in other words, there is no difference between records from 1968 and 2024. The issue of distortion should not be related to the HumminGuru cleaner. 

 

Anyhow, we will need more information/video demonstrating the distortion in the low notes for further evaluation. However, It's important to consider that hearing is a subjective experience, and individuals' sensitivity to sound can vary.  It is difficult to justify when some people has very sharp ears, some don't. Additionally, as the ultrasonic cleaning process clears dirt from the grooves, it can result in a more open, louder, or vivid sound, which might affect the listening experience as well. 

 

Thanks! I look forward to your feedback. “

 

very vague and general, but I will be with the dealer this Wednesday where he might listen for himself and perhaps send a video or recording of the damaged records. Just hope they don’t qualify me has having very sharp hears, which unfortunately I don’t have anymore, at 57. 

mapman's avatar
mapman
23,664 posts
 

The records I clean on my Humminguru all sound great.  I use distilled water.   

antinn
486 posts
 

@pfmaudio 

Do you think doubling the drying time can help to remove the eventual residue?

Drying longer is not going to reduce/remove the residue.  Nonionic surfactant in their 100% state is often like thin oils and are essentially non-volatile.  When the volatile water evaporates/dries, what is left behind are the non-volatile ingredients of the cleaner.  If the cleaner only contains a simple nonionic surfactant, it will be a viscous type of thin oil that is generally easily removed (water soluble) with a water rinse.  HOWEVER, if there are any inorganic salts in the ingredients, they do not dissolve back into water.  Think about hard water stains - they will not redissolve into water.  You need an acid which is why you use Distilled White Vinegar to clean your coffee maker.  The acid can dissolve the hard water (mineral salts) deposits.  

This whole issue with reside remaining after the water (or solvent) evaporates/dries is what the industry terms "non-volatile residue" NVR.

pindac's avatar
pindac
4,063 posts
 

@antinn Thank You for the supplied information.

Polysorbate 20 is much easier to source in smaller volume, hence much cheaper as a purchase than the cost for BASF™ Dehypon® LS 54.

Options on Costings and Chemical for a Part to be used in a mixture to produce a Solution for the cleaning process, is now improved for the UK and EU individuals that express an interest in such practices..  

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