Started with $1k speakers … what now?

jdavis234 OP

8 posts

01-28-2024 at 10:06am 

@benanders A fair question, and thanks for your insight. The SF is a smaller front ported box and works closer to wall boundaries. The Polk has to be positioned out from the walls, at least in the space where I have them. So they served different purposes for me, and sonically I like the tone of the SF Lumina but also the impact and soundstage of the Polks, which can be a bit less exciting, overall, in my setup/space. The adage “buy cheap buy twice” isn’t lost on me, though; I honestly didn’t know a thing about speakers or placement then and felt 1k was a good starting point. So moving on from this, I’m looking for a speaker that is built to a higher level of performance, hoping that that 3-5k range new or used will get there and seeing some of the great suggestions, it seems that it will, regardless of room treatments or placement options, which are certainly their own important considerations. I really appreciate the suggestions for the Carbons and Joseph Audio, and others. These are products I wouldn’t have known about otherwise. I’ll be looking at a few.
 

@jdavis234 you’re welcome. Do consider speakers’ overall design/approach rather than just designer/model name - everything you’ve mentioned is pretty standard (the Joseph Audio’s do garner good comments and I’ll admit, they’re nice… at a price).

You haven’t mentioned considering actives or panels yet. If standmounts, panels seem an unlikely candidate but are worth hearing - they’re different. I’m not sure omnidirectional speakers are in your price range or would work for a small room, haven’t looked. They do neat (different) stuff too. If you only listen to more typical box-cone speakers, you’ll be limiting yourself to evaluating more nuanced differences in a “type”, so to speak. Start broader than that, and narrow down based on whether you discover a preference for transducer type. It can be a real thing.

Also consider speakers that are floorstanders but require only the on-floor real estate of a standmount. Reason being, if you don’t get carried away and aim to overpower your room, it’s worth comparing models with greater driver surface area. This reduces drivers’ legwork between each crossover range. It can have a considerable effect on your in-room sound. Beware paying more for exotic cabinetry whatever the size of your speakers.

KEF LS60 is past your price point, but a curious example of an active speaker that takes up the same floor real estate as a standmount and offers even greater individual driver control (being, of course, active). I don’t keep up with Genelec prices but they have a pretty hardcore niche following outside recording studios. Probably hard to find a “cleaner” small format speaker, but like anything, that’s to taste. And you kinda need a Star Wars-themed room for Genelec’s to blend in. Educate yourself on actives, panels, omni’s, whether or not they wind up being approaches you ultimately consider. 

With standmounts, you’ll do well to also educate yourself on how in-room bass can work since you may eventually want to implement 1+ sub(s). Probably worth a look:

Have you run REW software on your room?  It’s free (although you need to buy a microphone off Amazon for cheap).

It will tell you a lot about your room and where you can spend money the most effectively.

hardest part is looking at the curve and going “”OK what now”?!  But there are 10,000 smart guys on the internet (and 29,000 really stupid ones) to help figure that it.

it will save you a lot of time, money, and false starts.

@hilde45 @balooo2 Thank you for sharing your review on Fritz. It’s a great review, and kudos to Dave. I carefully examined the AR series crossover used in the Carbon 7 SE Mk2. Now, I can better understand what Nemo means by ’less bass quantity,’ attributed to the design of the capless and serial connection of the resistor crossover. Because a portion of the current runs through the resistor instead of the woofer, the low ends are not as efficient, and the resistor tends to run hot. Additionally, the capless design puts more stress on the tweeter. While both Nemo and Dave mentioned that the bass from the Carbon is tight and agile, focusing more on quality than quantity, some users have commented that the bass may not sound as dynamic. I’m not an expert on crossover design, but it seems there’s no free lunch after all.

While I believe the components utilized in the de minimis, capless design crossover are of high quality, consisting of only three parts (1 resistor and 2 inductors) and given that the design is open source, I find myself questioning why the overall price remains relatively high (forgive me for saying that). Perhaps I should not be misled by the unassuming appearance of Fritz and refrain from passing premature judgments on the cost.

@lanx0003 : While both Nemo and Dave mentioned that the bass from the Carbon is tight and agile, focusing more on quality than quantity, some users have commented that the bass may not sound as dynamic. I’m not an expert on crossover design, but it seems there’s no free lunch after all.

I think this is an accurate comment. These are stand mounts that have made a conscious decision to have good bass with excellent midrange and highs that are clear without being super precise. These will lend themselves more to some kinds of music better than others -- there's no free lunch and this is not a "does everything speaker."

I find myself questioning why the overall price remains relatively high (forgive me for saying that). Perhaps I should not be misled by the unassuming appearance of Fritz and refrain from passing premature judgments on the cost.

I think there may be a couple of reasons for this:

1. Boutique, handmade product with home trial means a bit more $$. Then again, one is getting a better speaker than, say, a more mass produced speaker. E.g. the Dynaudio Special 40 lists at $3600, so the Carbon 7's really blow that out of the water.

2. The price may be more negotiable than, say, dealing with a store (not sure). Perhaps Fritz is leaving himself some room.

All that said, I suspect the speaker might sell better at a somewhat lower price-point, but I am not sure if Fritz sells enough of this to take that risk.

@lanx0003 Your points are well taken however I’ve yet to come across the perfect audio componet in everyone’s eyes. I would ask you this...Can you recommend a speaker that cost less the the Carbon 7’s (new) that has superior componets, better build and a generous in home no questions asked trial as opposed to the carbon 7’s? The only reason folks are capable of picking apart the question of Fritz speakers value propostion is because he is completely transparent about exactly what is inside the box.To me its like going to a fine resturant looking at your menu choice and evaluating the cost of the ingredients that went into the meal with no other consideration. I feel completely comfortable stating 90% of the people reading this do not have a clue what crossover etc.componets are inside the speakers they own nor do they really care, either it sounds good in their system or it does not period. I’ve been shopping for a quite some time and Fritz has been simply at the top of my shortlist based on lots of feedback. When you personally communicate with several people who lived with a product give it a thumbs up without reserve what more do you want? I am not being facetios. I’m participating on this thread because I too am seeking a better pair of speakers for my system like the OP. Either they’ll work for me or they won’t. If you are aware of a superior product that is not diy for the same or lower cost (new) please share your find .

Thanks!