As he promised, Guttenberg reviews the Eminent Technology LFT-8c.


 

Back in June I initiated a thread bringing to your attention the LFT-8b loudspeaker from Eminent Technology, and the review of it by Steve Guttenberg. In that review Steve mentioned he would be getting the LFT option of a new woofer section, this one being of dipole design (the 8b woofer is a sealed monopole), the new model designated as the LFT-8c. Below is a link to Steve’s new review of it.

The LFT-8b remains available at a price of $3200 (including shipping within the States), the new LFT-8c selling for $4500 shipped. The 8c woofer system includes a power amp for the front-firing 8" and rear-firing 6.5" woofers, and DSP for planar-magnetic panel/woofer integration.

Not mentioned in this new review is that Guttenberg greatly preferred the LFT-8b to not only the Magnepan MG1.7i, but also the MG3.7i, which retails for almost three times the price of the ET. Steve found the 8c to be even better than the 8b, the dipole woofer blending with the LFT planar-magnetic panels better than did the 8b’s monopole woofer (Magnepan themselves is still working on their upcoming dipole woofer system).

However, he found the 8c woofer to be good down to only 40Hz or so. Hey, 8" and 6.5" woofers can do only so much! And he didn’t like the sound of the DSP when engaged. The $1300 price-differential between the 8b and 8c may be justified, but there is another option:

Any dipole woofer system can be used in place of the 8b’s monopole woofer, it needn’t be the 8c system. A great alternative is the OB/Dipole Sub offered by Rythmik Audio in collaboration with GR Research. This woofer system consists of two (or three, your choice) 12" woofers mounted in a dipole "frame", powered by a Rythmik Audio plate amp (which also contains a dipole-cancellation compensation circuit). The only catch is that the woofer system is offered only in kit form, the user being required to mount the woofers in the frame. GR Research offers just such a frame in both DIY flatpack form and assembled (and even finished, if you wish). This woofer system offers bass reproduction of the bottom octave, with the same superior integration with the m-p panels as that of the 8c’s dipole woofer. The Rythmik Audio plate amp includes all the controls necessary for optimum blending of the panels to woofers, including a continuously-variable 0-180 phase control.

The combined price of the LFT-8b and Rythmik/GRR dipole wooer is still far below that of the MG3.7i, and imo is an outrageous bargain in today’s high end world of loudspeakers. Steve once again mentions he doesn’t like electrostatic loudspeakers, but finds the sound of the LFT-8b and 8c to match ESL’s in transparency, while beating them in dynamics and tonal density.

 

https://youtu.be/R4vC3V00-3Y

 

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When Stereophile reviewed the original version it was kind of a disaster...John Atkinson is normally pretty nice about poor measuring speakers but this one just looked broken. A lot of time has passed and my question for Eminent would be how they addressed the super rough response, ringing, and rough spectral decay. 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/eminent-technology-lft-viii-loudspeaker-measurements

@seanheis1: Though reviewer Corey Greenberg loved the LFT-8 ("These are MIGHTY fine speakers, rivaling many well-known models at considerably higher prices. In terms of detail and midrange clarity, they are some of the most impressive speakers I’ve heard at ANY price. The LFT-8’s gave the impression of a very fast, natural-sounding speaker."), John Atkinson’s measurements of it were indeed pretty bad. Measuring a dipole planar loudspeaker is fraught with peril, the measurements not at all correlating with the sound the speaker produces. That’s why Magnepan doesn’t send out their speakers for review.

Something to be aware of: The LFT-8 Greenberg received for reviewed was the original version. Partway trough his evaluation, Bruce Thigpen send him a revised planar panel, which had it’s ribbon tweeter moved from the top of the panel to its’ middle. The LFT-8 then later had three other revisions made---a different woofer, tweeter, and cross-over. With one of the revisions came the 8a nomenclature, another the 8b.

John Atkinson knows how to measure a dipole...but I agree an average Joe would struggle to get the best possible measurement just like they would struggle to get the room and placement just right for that tiny sweet spot...reviewer gatekeeping is pretty severe with family owned hi-fi brands & really anything high end like Wilson/Magico...it's smart business.  

Magnepan measures poorly due to things like phase cancellation and a first order filter...it appears some Eminent speakers do the same and the top model uses DSP for some frequencies...but higher frequency beaming with planar designs can't be fixed.        

There are people that rip out the Magnepan filter & replace it with a DSP crossover to presumably level the response and time align the tweeter and midrange....to great satisfaction based on self-reporting....but to each their own.

This is not to say that one cannot love a speaker that has a highly uneven frequency response and ringing. Zu Audio would not exist if people didn't like what it did...including it's editorialization of the response and masking other frequencies.

Regarding Corey Greenberg, he did note a lack of coherence between the mid and bass panel. Steve Guttenberg noted the same. However, Steve Guttenberg noted an improvement in coherence with the DSP version...not surprising....but then he did mention he didn't like how the DSP changed the sound so he turned DSP off...so who knows...I have heard DSP sound terrible and I have heard DSP that is transparent...all about implementation and the technology used of course.  

 

 

My friend has the Lii Audio silver 10s ($1200 the pair) and he says they measure and sound very flat (no lowther shout). You need to seriously burn these drivers in and you CANNOT listen to their binding posts.....remove the binding posts and hardwire your speaker wire to the voice coil wire....its like a completely different speaker.

Of course, the latest 8b would sound and measure way better than the original 8......but modding the heck out of them brings them to another whole level.

Here is another variety of what I described above about getting planar sound on the cheap.  You get a Minidsp Flex (analog version)......use a Fossi amp for the woofs and an Aegir or other inxpensive tube amp or class D amp (another $100 Fossi, for instance)......You use 2 12 inch Beyma 12BR70 woofs ($160 each) on an open baffle and above it you mount 4 Parts express $60 planar drivers in series parallel (woofs in parallel).  WE are talking 94db woofs and 94db line source here!!!  The mini dsp is the xover, the preamp and the DAC all in one.  With both 12 inch woofs being directly driven by an amp and with no inductors in series and with equalization, the bass would kill, (I mean slaughter) the ET speaker.  You cross over around 400 hz to the mini line array planars and you will have sound so good you would die.  You run your wires directly from the two amps to the drivers (voice coil wires on woofs).  The minidsp ($500), wood ($300), wire ($300), 4 woofs ($700) and 8 planars ($550) would be around.$2500 with shipping....plus whatever amps you want (you probably already have an amp for the highs.....some or you have another amp laying around for the bass.  I would lake this anyday over a stock 83db sensitive 8B.  Of course, as I mentioned above a fully tweaked 8b with open baffle bi-amped speaker would be probably better (better planars?).  Alternatively, you could use one 10 inch planar driver from Radian ($660 a pair).....these might be more transparent than the Parts express planars but probably have less horizontal dispersion and way less vertical dispersion.  (If you sit in one spot then the Radians might be the ticket).

@ricevs I'm sure that would be amazing if you were able to get the filters right in the mini DSP. 

Regarding Lii Audio I still wouldn't connect amp directly to driver without passive filter or DSP for baffle step correction...there is no getting around the rising response...having said that, some people love a rising response for the extra presence it brings...just not me.