What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?

@o_holter , your experience with the Souther arm is typical. If you are the least bit discerning they will drive you nuts, almost as nuts as air bearing arms. If you are looking for the ultimate pitch stability you need to check out vacuum clamping. My own feelings about VPI are well known. 

@lewm , AJ Conte, Edgar Vulchur, Marc Dohmann, David Fletcher, Hideaki Nishikawa to name a few. 

neonknight - my SME V was made in October 1999. In 2016 I asked SME about service and upgrade. Answer: unless something wrong, maybe not needed. But for 555 pounds they would do a full service + testing + new internal wire (silver litz van den Hul). I thought it was fair, but I checked the arm myself, found no obvious problems, and have never done it. Likewise, the phono cable stays the same, Kimber KCAG soldered to the DIN plug to the arm (a bit tricky). I borrowed a Hovland cable but heard only marginal improvement over the Kimber. Never tried a balanced phono cable. My phono stage can take this, but the general debate is that it does not matter much unless there are problems with single ended (the Io’s first gain stage is not truly balanced, anyway).

What HAS made a big difference to me, lately: 1) I was lucky, getting a quad of excellent ultra low noise Telefunken in the critical first gain stage of the Io, 2) fine-tuning the azimuth with a Fozgometer, plus other small cartridge adjustments, and 3) working more with speaker positioning. Small "boring" things that can add up to a lot. All in the service of a more quiet, stable, balanced dimensional stereo image.

The Hanss T30 is an entirely different animal compared to my VPI hw19 mk4, and my short verdict is "better". I agree with you regarding the VPI motors. In this and other respect the Hanss is clearly superior (although the SDS is perhaps the best power control, or at least more convenient to adjust, compared to the little box that comes with the Hanss). To compare the two, I recorded to DSD on my Tascam DA-3000. So I could A-B switch, comparing pitch, timbre etc. The Hanss won out. Someone wrote that Hanss cannot really rock (a Townshend player was better), but it has never bothered me. A friend of mine has the bigger brother, the T60, and it has a bit more deep bass and explosive dynamics than my T30, but these are basically similar-sounding designs. I have never heard Scheu, or even SOTA. I got a T30 demo for a very good price (ca usd 2800) ten years ago and have basically stopped looking for another player. I like the ideas behind the Hanss design, and find that they work well, like two motors, totally isolated from the player, strings pulling the platter evenly, from each side. The platter is clearly held in a much tighter ’grip’ than on the VPI (a critic might say; even so, with 6 strings, you get all the troubles of these rubber type strings, they vibrate, etc - and although averaged and evened out, it is not quite = full precision). Further, the magnetic bearing works much better than the springs on the VPI, even after placing the HW-19 on a Bright Star platform, and other tweaks I tried. That actually did help the HW-19 sound, but only after a lot of base / feet / platform tweaking. Which I got "free" so to speak with the Hanss. I placed the T30 directly on my solid stone rack top shelf, and have never felt the need for more tweaks, sand box, etc - no thanks.

I don’t blame my SME V for my troubles with the VPI player, it sounded ok on this spring-loaded turntable also, but it clearly likes the more stable Hanss platform better. There is no skipping or mistracking, except when the LP has a major problem.

I am interested in good ways to go, based on the system we have, for a low cost. In my case, maybe I should check the SME damping. A little more oil might do the trick. I have some treble noise or sibilance, on some recordings at least. Also, the Hanss player might sound even better with a linear power supply.

Arguments within arguments. Mijostyn, I don’t understand the meaning behind your listing BD TT designers in a post addressed to my attention. I am not dogmatic about drive systems and never have been. It’s just that in recent years I’ve found DD to be the best bang for the buck, while restricting my choices to the best vintage Japanese models and after updates and replinthing all but the L07D. I admit that for about 10 years I was collecting rather than really filling a need. (Because who really needs 5 TTs?) I think you’re confusing me with Pindac. Apology accepted in advance. None of the three commonly used drive systems is flawless.

@lewm There has been plenty of 'throwing under the bus' within this Thread.

From recollection it first started when a SME 3012 was a made known preferred choice over a SME V/12.

It has reared it head on a few occasions since and now with your latest statement the 'throwing under the bus' continues.

For the record, I am not prejudiced against any Drive, I have used Three of the most common examples and still own all Drives oof a common example.

A Idler Drive Superseded a Belt Drive and a DD Superseded the Idler and Belt Drive. At one point, not too many years past, I was with all the required knowledge to produce a Idler Drive design that could be a Belt Drive or Idler Drive.

I regularly visit individuals who have Belt Drive TT's, Idler Drive TT's and DD TT's.

More Importantly I am very respectful of their choices and know each is able to very successful produce a Replay that is able to be enjoyed.  

I am into the musical encounter and the social aspect of this hobby as first priority, I don't do equipment as the goal, or the must have to be aspired to.

Equipment is a Tool and a Tool is only as good as the skill of the user.

There are plenty of very worthy Tools able to produce a great end piece in the hands of individuals who will never know the tools true capability.

There are some who have the Tool and express curiosity about how to get the best value from its capabilities and reap the rewards for their endeavors to learn more.

I know which side of the fence I am on. 

As a second interest that has a allure and nothing else, I am into the Mechanics of the Trinity of TT>Tonearm>Cart'.

I have spent hours with individuals who are skilled by career in Mechanical Engineering and have extended this discipline to Micro Mechanical Engineering, the types who machine parts for Cameras and Watches, and have a love of vinyl, taking these skills to the table on this subject.

I have also spent hours with individuals who have access to very skilled machinists who are adept at carrying out micro machining, as a result of being engineers that produced reduced scale working Models of bygone equipment.

I have shared numerous mails with likeminded individuals from across the Globe and have been supplied great snippets, as well as supply snippets of info' very much worthwhile pondering. A vast amount has been learned about alternate materials and how they are on paper improved in their properties over other options seriously considered. Even though there may never be a face to face meeting, respect and friendships grow.  

As said it is a allure, it is not a must have in my life.

With this interest, I have developed a few ideas about, what I class as being for the best and of most importance for the Integrated Function of the Trinity.

I have learned of and experienced first hand, measures that can be put in place to supply each interface within the Trinity with an improved environment to function.

Some of this has to be experienced to fully understand how the benefits are showing out, words can't do it justice, all they can do is let it be known betterment can be attained.

I am sure my viewpoints on such a matter will cause a few to have their feathers ruffled, but Hey Ho, I am getting a great deal form the learning, creativity and experiences being encountered.   

Ok. You’re perfect. But I have no idea why you think someone threw you under a bus (which is a horrible metaphor). You did concoct a long unflattering post about BD . I wondered whether that inspired Mijostyn, and that’s all there is to it.