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thanks

@lonemountain , I beg to differ Brad. Subs belong in corners. That is where they are most efficient. I have been using digital signal processing including full range room control for 25 years. My main speakers are ESLs and I high pass them at 100 Hz. The result is far less distortion and much higher volumes. The advantage will not be as great for multiway dynamic speakers but still detectible. IMHO digital signal processing done right is a boon to overall system performance for a multitude of reasons not just subwoofer crossover. You can not perfectly match your channels any other way not to mention tuning your system exactly the way you want it. I even use dynamic loudness filters. The system sounds exactly the same regardless of volume.

The best way, IMHO, to manage subs is to put them where they are most efficient using at least two in a symmetrical array with the main speakers, cross them steeply (48 dB/oct at least) using matching high pass filters on the mains putting the crossover point 6 dB down. Then matching the subs in time and phase with the main speakers. I would argue that if a symmetrical array can not be done due to room issues then it is the wrong room for a HiFi system. I have set up systems in rooms I would have never used for HiFi and made the best of it but I always warned the person the situation was not optimal. Most people do not care. They listen to music but do not imagine it. To them an image is something coming from the right and something else coming from the left. 

I can very much appreciate the experience of others.   SpeakerDude, yes, the speakers in question are good down low without subs, almost always a 2nd order roll off.   All analog from a good converter, usually a Burl.  Target for max SPL (for dynamics) is 100 to 110dB SPL.    

Mijosten, I appreciate corners are where subs can have the most boundary gain but corners are rarely available in a studio.  They are frequently occupied with gear or bass traps.  Somewhere along the floor where it meets the wall is usually the best available location, with only 3dB less boost than the corner.   Sub arrays are certainly a goal but its extremely rare to have a studio actually allocate the control room space (often living room sized) to implement one.  In 25 years I have not seen a single studio example.  In live or fixed install, I have seen many examples. 

Is this the conflict of the practical vs the theoretical?

Brad

Apologies I used voice dictation for my last post and it changed mains to means several times. So much for context sensitive dictation :-)

@lonemountain if you are low passing the subs at only 2nd order (12db/octave) then you pretty much have to run the mains full range. Even 24db/octave is not enough with a high cutoff if you want to prevent localization. Analog filtering on the subs can often cause phase integration issues with the mains. 2nd order will have less phase issues, but has the aforementioned issues. DSP filtering is by far best for subs.

@mijostyn - Corner loading a sub may be the best option for a room, or it may not be. If it is bad for a given room and that room has symmetry, you quite often create more problems than you solve. It would be far more often the case with two subs that pulling them forward on the opposing walls out of the corners would result in more even bass and better use of available power. Your subs will only have some limited line array effect as the line is wall-to-wall, and the floor is right there, so you already have one immediate reflection, but if it behaves as a line array, the front wall-back wall room mode is amplified. Your crossover is below the Shrodinger frequency.

So I got to run my new Sony TA-ZH1ES dac/pre/headphone amp as a pure 2 ch preamp today, sans subs, just in 2.0. I haven’t listened to a system without dsp in this room in a long time (ever?) and although the Sony’s sound is more pure to the original recording it loses a step in sound staging and overall smoothness compared to my Marantz processor in Pure Direct mode which includes the benefit of the subs and room EQ. I might tinker with setting up the subs and dsp with the Sony after the holidays but for now am just going to enjoy it as a dac feeding my Marantz processor.