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Magico V3 with tubed amplification, will it work ?

Hello There,
I'm planning to upgrade my old Thiel 3.6 speakers.

I was considering Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversary, really liked then, divine soundstage, great transparency. But I have heard Magico Mini on some audio show, I have never heard anything like this, they sounded different then anything else, so involving, truthful, I was captivated literally... For me they bettered all speaker I have heard so far. (I know that they do not have slam of Wilson speakers). But price $20.000 for mini monitors, that is insane.
But, now I have noticed that V3 can be bought for $12.000, which is about as much I could afford. And V3 will have better dynamics and more bass which is all I would need.
I have talked with former Magico dealer and he told me that Magico will not work with 100W tube amplifier (Supratek Burgundy) or Clayton M100 (class A 100W) which I own.
He basically told me that I need strong 300W of solid state power from Spectral, ML, Krell, Ayre to make them sing. With 100W he claimed they will sound dull uninvolving.
I do not want to change amps so I’m in quandary. He was trying to convince me that Wilson Sasha is better choice and they are easy to drive and 100W will do just fine.
I’m not sure if this is genuine advice or just dealer talk, he is selling Wilson Audio now.
How can Sasha be easy load if it drops to 1.8ohm ? I’m not convinced, so I'm looking for second opinion. I heard on numerous occasions WATT/Puppy in shortcut huge soundstage big bass, but was never captivated by music the way I was with Magico. Hence my question:
Have anybody been using V3 with tube amplification ? Can Magico be successfully driven by 100W tube amp ?
sorlowski
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
I envision Magico to perform similarly off tube amps as Thiel, ie yes it will work and have some nice attributes, but low end may not be as convincing as with good high current SS gear.

I have heard Magico Minis of beefy VAC tube amp sound very nice but in line with my assessment above. Have not heard V3 but dealer seemed to prefer Minis with that system. I suspect largely because V3s go deeper and fuller and tube amp is not the best match.

I've heard V3 at show demos sound very nice with full bottom end similar to YG Anat off of good quality high current SS amplification.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,575 posts
 
The problem you are dealing with is that the speaker is inefficient. They rate the 'sensitivity' at 89 db, which is at best moderate, but when you do the math (its a 4 ohm load, sensitivity is 2.83 volts into 4 ohms) what you see is the efficiency is only 86 db!

In most rooms that is a need for a lot of power! In my room I would need 400 watts at a *minimum*. My room is 17' x 21'.

If I were you I would look at a more efficient speaker if you want to use tubes. The Sasha that you mentioned is an example- 100 watt tube amps drive it quite well despite its low impedance at 80Hz. Another speaker to consider that is in the same performance arena is the Dreammaker by Audiokinesis.
bvdiman
491 posts
 
I had the Mini2, and later V3 (ar.4yrs in total with both). Cut story short, my brother ultimately loved how V3s sounded in my room driven alternately by FMA (250w) or Soulution (110w @8ohms) that he decided to take it off me. Even though his room is actually on the smallish side (ar.12'x15'), his amp then an ARC REF110 simply refused to 'wake' those V3s up - somehow sounded restrained. Later a change to REF150 improved things quite a bit, but he reckoned still not there yet.

Finally, after more in-room toying/comparing (-+3months), he ended up trading in my old pair of V3s for the dealer's brand new loaner pair of Sasha+REF150. In his simple words, he thought the pairing to be - 'more alive, more exciting'. I agree.. that that particular amp+speaker combo in synergy with his other ancillaries, in his room, playing his music, happen to do just that.

The Mini2s/V3s are undoubtedly some great speakers, even more so considering their current used prices. However, I suggest you do an in-home audition with your current amp (if no intention to change), prior to any commitment. IMO/E, in a moderate size room, you DO need at least a good 200-300w of tube power, OR--alternatively, some capable high current/quality SS amps to unleash their true/otherwise hidden potential.
peterayer
1,382 posts
 
I own the Mini 2 and prefer it to both the V3 and the V2. My Pass XA100.5 was not enough for the Mini 2, so I now use the XA160.5 (300 watts at 4 ohms, all Class A and then more in class A/B). I did hear the V2, which I also prefer to the V3 (more coherent) with a 100 watt Spectral amp in a small room and it sounded fantastic. The Magico specs are deceiving. They need a lot of power to sound good. The V2 is an easier load than the Mini 2. The used prices for these wooden Magicos are quite attractive, but you need good/powerful amplification.
bhobba's avatar
bhobba
303 posts
 
With highly transparent speakers like the Magico Mini its purely a matter of personal preference if you power it with valve or high power SS.

I owned a speaker similar to the Mini, a ML1, and drove it successfully with 2 amps - a 15W Leben and 100W SS but have heard it with 500w Arions.

The 500W Arions were the best sounding overall but the 15W Leben was still very good - a divine midrange and even rock soundeed OK - just slightly compressed. The 100W SS had more than enough power for stuff at normal levels. I would get the 100W valve amp without a second thought if that's the kind of sound you like.

Here is one of the best articles about amplifier power I know:
http://www.ellisaudio.com/wattsratings.htm

I actually am in a similar quandary right now. I am getting some speakers a bit similar to your Magicos built and have narrowed it down to 2 amps - an Arion 500w and a 45W valve amp. Through the valves the vocals are unbelievably real and present but with the Arions it has better grip and bass and you can reach FRIGHTENING levels if that is your wont. Its purely a matter of personal preference.

Thanks
Bill
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