New Coincident Frankenstein 300B Stereo Version


Coincident has a new stereo version of the Frankenstein. I currently use Coincident Super Victory IIIs speakers driven by Pass Labs XA30.8. My preamp is EAR Yoshino 868PL.

Logic tells me the Frankenstein Stereo would be a steller match with my speakers. I have never had SET amps in my setup before.

Just wondering if I will be going the SET route, would I lose bass?

Love the Pass XA30.8 but curious about what people call "SET magic".

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

sim_audio_nerd

@Charles- I completely agree with your last point from a purely theoretical standpoint.  I live 10 minutes from Coincident, and have likely owned more models of Coincident speakers over the past 20 years then most on this forum.  One of the best previous combos was a 14-watt SET 211 amp and Air Tight ATC-2 preamp on Total Victories, so am with you on the inherent quality of SET bass.

 **However, when I was last at Israel’s place a couple months back, I was quite blown away by the impact of the double PRE with Franks on top and Parasound A21+ driving all 4 woofers (double bass cabinets as well).  The naturalness on the mids/highs combined with the massive impact on the bass was really something, and the bass didn’t seem ‘overdone’ either…

Boy, there is some real wisdom in the above comments by @realworldaudio !  For most of us, our first experience hearing the low frequency component of music was sitting in our buddies 8x10 bedroom listening to Jack Bruce's electric bass with Ginger Baker whacking away on his bass drum, as reproduced by a 13 WPC Technics receiver through Cerwin-Vega speakers.  Oh the horror of it all, the source was a cheap dual table with a $39 Shure cartridge sitting on top of one of the speakers. (Perhaps this is why so many of us fell in love with Clapton!) I might suggest this miserable excuse for reproduction of music was the basis for the "unique US phenomenon" to which real world alludes.  It didn't take a discerning ear to figure out that Cerwin Vegas in a bedroom wasn't quite "right", so what was "right" must be the pendulum swinging to the opposite position.  But no, that is not quite right either. 

Real world gets to the heart of the flaw in the TAS theory.  He points out that in the same venue, one can experience bass that is too loose, too tight, or just right, depending upon where one sits.  But since all of these are real experiences of unamplified music in a live venue, they are all "right" in an objective sense.  Choosing one of these three as "right" is a matter of personal preference.  

For years, my preferred seat in my local symphonic venue was in the front row, less than 10 feet away from the cello section.  This was in the Indianapolis Circle Theater, where as far as I was able to determine. there was no good seat.  It is just a hall with miserable acoustics.   I sat in the front row right in front of the cellos because that is where the cellos sounded best..  I sat there for enough years to become acquaintances with one of the cellists.  I recall a conversation I had with him regarding why I sat in the front row.  He told me to move my seat to the dress circle.  He said "symphonic" means "sound together" and that is how this music is meant to be heard.  I replied, that may be, but the ghost of LvB is not haunting me and the cellos sound better here!

My decision to move from SET to Atma-sphere's OTL WAS NOT because of low frequency reproduction.  In actual fact, what I found was that every aspect of the music just sounded a bit better-more real-more right- in my room to my ears.  

The absolute sound concept has value, but it has limitations. As real world so beautifully pointed out, the absolute sound is not a singular experience in the real world. It is a range of experiences all of which are possible within the same venue.  Some like their coffee unsweetened, some like one spoon of sugar, some like two.

The most important component in any system is the ear-brain, the second is the speaker-room, and everything else follows. 

I suspect that @hilde45 could add much to this discussion if he has time.   

@brownsfan 

The absolute sound concept has value, but it has limitations. As real world so beautifully pointed out, the absolute sound is not a singular experience in the real world. It is a range of experiences all of which are possible within the same venue.  Some like their coffee unsweetened, some like one spoon of sugar, some like two.

The most important component in any system is the ear-brain, the second is the speaker-room, and everything else follows. 

I suspect that @hilde45 could add much to this discussion if he has time.  

Very pertinent comments from you and @sutts as well. I am in no way suggesting that excellent (which to me means natural bass) performance is not possible with non SET amplification. I was really connecting to what @realworldaudio was explaining as it fit my listenings experiences so closely.

I wanted to make the point that a high quality SET amplifier with appropriate speakers can produce very convincing and natural bass in one's audio system. Bill I do not doubt for a momment you are not enjoying superb bas with your Atma-Sphere M-60s. It's simply the better match for your speakers/room and desires.

In that context same for me with the Frankenstein MK II with my Total Eclipse II. The correct buttons are being pushed.☺. It's all good.

Charles

@charles1dad you have never, ever, taken an overly dogmatic position on any of  your posts that I can recall.  I did not misunderstand your comments. I hope no one has misunderstood mine.  

 In actual fact, I agree that SET is quite capable of delivering a very natural and very pleasing bass.  That did not drive me in the OTL direction.  It was the very high THD resulting from trying to reproduce orchestral music with 92.5 dB efficient speakers that prompted the move.  Had I stuck with my 94dB efficient Triumph Extreme II monitors, I would have certainly stuck with the Franks in my main system.

I've grown to love my OTLs as much as my CSL.  But it took a lot of tube rolling to get there, and it also took a lot of work on my room to get where I am now.   I'd go further and emphasize that were it not for my CSL and its SET magic, I would not be nearly as enthusiastic about the OTL as I am.  Going back to my coffee analogy, the OTL/CSL combo is one spoon of sugar.  That is just right for me.

I think Ralph would tell you that his amps are more popular with the vinyl crowd.  I suspect there are not many  of us Digital only OTL guys. 

In the end, there is a reason why my Franks have been sitting idle for nearly 5 years.  I haven't sold them because I still love them, and they are worth more to me than they would likely bring.  I just know that at some point, I'm going to want to go down the Frankenstein road again.  But, it won't be with the Super Victory speakers.  I noticed that Israel has resurrected the Pure Reference as a MK II.  It looks like the Total Victory with PRE drivers.  MTM configuration with side firing dual woofers. Very interesting.  30K.  I hope we will see a review on these.  I think the PRs would work in my room, whereas I think it is probably a bit smallish for PREs.

 

@brownsfan

A friend is a longtime Atma-Sphere owner and I am  familiar with his MA-1 mono blocks. So I feel that I can extrapolate the sound of your M-60 mono blocks. We paired his MP-1 preamplifier with my Frankensteins and result was pure and gorgeous.

I can easily imagine your CSL and M-60 pairing being every bit as accomplished. Ralph has described his OTLs as 3rd order harmonics signature and SET as 2nd order harmonic signature. He is spot on with this distinction. He pointed out that naturally a listener may prefer one over the other’s presentation. Bottom line is either is quite capable of exquisite sound quality with proper set up.

Bill your former Coincident Triumphs were very easy to drive just like my Total Eclipse. In fact I believe that the old Eclipse series of Coincident speakers were probably the most compatible with SET amplifiers. 14 ohm load impedance will do that.😊

Charles