For me getting to learn the nuances of what I hear, getting familiar with the fabric of music made it possible to fine-tune my system to allow further and deeper exploration.
I completely understand this perspective and relate to it 100%.
Charles
New Coincident Frankenstein 300B Stereo Version
Coincident has a new stereo version of the Frankenstein. I currently use Coincident Super Victory IIIs speakers driven by Pass Labs XA30.8. My preamp is EAR Yoshino 868PL.
Logic tells me the Frankenstein Stereo would be a steller match with my speakers. I have never had SET amps in my setup before.
Just wondering if I will be going the SET route, would I lose bass?
Love the Pass XA30.8 but curious about what people call "SET magic".
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Showing 20 responses by charles1dad
A friend is a longtime Atma-Sphere owner and I am familiar with his MA-1 mono blocks. So I feel that I can extrapolate the sound of your M-60 mono blocks. We paired his MP-1 preamplifier with my Frankensteins and result was pure and gorgeous. I can easily imagine your CSL and M-60 pairing being every bit as accomplished. Ralph has described his OTLs as 3rd order harmonics signature and SET as 2nd order harmonic signature. He is spot on with this distinction. He pointed out that naturally a listener may prefer one over the other’s presentation. Bottom line is either is quite capable of exquisite sound quality with proper set up. Bill your former Coincident Triumphs were very easy to drive just like my Total Eclipse. In fact I believe that the old Eclipse series of Coincident speakers were probably the most compatible with SET amplifiers. 14 ohm load impedance will do that.😊 Charles |
Very pertinent comments from you and @sutts as well. I am in no way suggesting that excellent (which to me means natural bass) performance is not possible with non SET amplification. I was really connecting to what @realworldaudio was explaining as it fit my listenings experiences so closely. I wanted to make the point that a high quality SET amplifier with appropriate speakers can produce very convincing and natural bass in one's audio system. Bill I do not doubt for a momment you are not enjoying superb bas with your Atma-Sphere M-60s. It's simply the better match for your speakers/room and desires. In that context same for me with the Frankenstein MK II with my Total Eclipse II. The correct buttons are being pushed.☺. It's all good. Charles |
You are my brother from another mother. 😊 I have been making this point seemingly forever. I have been attending live (Usually smaller/intimate) jazz clubs for 30 years. Often they don’t even bother with microphones on the stage as they’re not necessary. You are hearing pure untampered with acoustic instruments. And you know what? Those upright beautiful wooden bass instruments are not tight! Certainly not in the overdamped,dry artificial sense that some audiophiles seem to demand. What they are is very full bodied with undeniable warmth, plenty of texture and a natural present bloom. The sound is not slow, flabby or bloated either. There is control but tight and overdamped is no where to be found when playing without the mic. Now in those circumstances where the acoustic bass is played with an attached microphone through the club’s electronic sound system, all bets are off. I have had various solid-state amplifiers and a couple of very good PP tube amplifiers. In terms of presenting what sounds like the most authentic acoustic bass, and all other instruments for that matter my 8 watt SET comes closer to that live acoustic vibe than any of the other amplifiers. It isn’t flawless and speaker choice is critical. But what it excels at just happens to be what matters most to me. Naturalness, realism and emotional/musical connection. Charles |
A few years ago Coincident offered an 845 Integrated (With a 300b as driver tube) SET that was about 27-30 watts per channel and it received universal praise. Was a very nice position between their Frankenstein (8 watts) and the Dragons (75 watts). I have no idea why Israel decided to discontinued it. This would have quite likely been a terrific option for you. Near impossible to find them used. Charles |
I know that @sns is using the Lanlai Elite 101D in his CSL and has had no problems to my knowledge. So I suspect that the current production available via Grant Fidelity are of good quality. I may at some point give them a try but for now I’m very happy with the Psvane W.E. Replica 101D, very happy. Bill, I also believe that the 101D is a brilliant preamplifier tube but for what ever reason is not even close in popularity compared to for example the 6SN7. I’m very familiar with the 6SN7 and it is no doubt a very fine tube. Of course implementation is a major factor in determining ultimate sound quality. What impresses me about the 101D is its sheer purity and transparency. It seems to have nearly zero editorializing qualities, yet is by no means sterile/lean/analytical, just pure. If the rest of the audio system is capable then one will hear natural and beautiful tone, timbres, overtones/harmonics and very fine nuanced musical detail. Perhaps it’s a more difficult tube to work with and get right in an audio circuit. I’m glad Israel Blume decided to give it a go and develop the magnificent CSL. for us hopelessly devoted music lovers’ 🙂 Charles |
I would agree that the tube purchasing “source” is a key factor. I bought my original pair of Psvane W.E. Replica 101D from Grant Fidelity. They lasted a good 7-8 years with fairly heavy usage. I bought my current W.E. Replica pair directly from Israel Blume last year and they have been faultless thus far. He told me he had several failures with the Linlai 101D and no longer recommends them. Perhaps this was an early run/production issue and current models could be just fine now. Agree with @brownsfan Psvane W.E. Replica 101D is a fabulous sounding tube paired with the CSL. Choose your source carefully. Charles |
Has been my assessment for a long time. Simply a stunningly good Line stage and no concerns with regard to power output needs as arises with the superb sibling Frankenstein SET. Bill, excellent comments in total. I hope that @sim_audio_nerd reaches out to you. Charles |
True. The Pass XA 30.8 clearly has more universal application with a larger pool of speakers. To bad Israel can not arrange an in home audition for you given that you are local to him (And own his speakers). I understand not wanting to buy an amplifier that may not suit your needs. Alas, the way it goes sometimes. The Frankenstein is truly one of the most open, transparent and pure sounding amplifiers I've ever heard and I've heard many. Charles
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Not a chance. This is what these open forums are supposed to provide, different members sharing their varied experiences. This is why I asked the OP about room/music volume and genres as they all matter. I even mentioned the Atma-Sphere M 60 as an alternative yesterday as I’m aware of @brownsfan’s situation. There’s an Audiogon member with the Coincident PRE speakers (Pure Reference Extremes) who preferred the Franks to the M 60, it always depends on variables. But again, different room/ears/taste/music genre etc. The SV III with crossover and driver changes may or may not be an easier load to drive. Surely horses for courses. Charles |
@sim_audio_nerd Charles |
YEP! And very often well under 1 watt of power. My typical listening levels are C-weighted SPL of 65-75 db with occasional peaks to mid 80s. In reality (Seated 10 feet from my 94 db sensitivity speakers) using small fractions of a single watt. Even with the rare listening at higher levels (Peaks 90-94 db) no sense of strain. However I want to preserve my hearing as best I can.🙂 Charles |
Well said.
Exactly why I chose the word sublime to describe the overall effect and presentation of the Frankenstein SET amplifier. The Pass XA 30.8 is universally praised as an excellent amplifier and I have zero reason to question that. No doubt the XA 30.8 offers more power just as my previously mentioned prior 100 watt tube amplifier. So if one feels they need the additional power for their speakers then go that route. I do not miss nor do I need the added power. The Frankenstein is utterly natural sounding. It made the very good 100 watt tube amp by comparison sound more "electronic" in nature. There is just more musical connection, heart, soul and humanity via the presentation of the Frankenstein reproducing recorded music. It makes other otherwise terrific amplifiers sound relatively speaking artificial. The critical midrange is simply wonderful yet the upper and lower frequencies are also presented in excellent fashion. No amplifier will ever be perfect and one has to choose their compromises. If your listening habits can be easily satisfied with lower power then the Frankenstein is very difficult to surpass in terms of an exceptionally natural and utterly transparent amplifying source. Charles
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@sns is 100% correct . High quality 300b SET amplifiers absolutely deserve top tier level 300b tubes. Yes they are expensive but in my listening experience worth every dime! The less costly 300b tubes are certainly decent in sound quality but will restrict the wonderful high ceiling potential of the better level amplifiers. Charles |
In regard to a successful pairing of the Frankenstein and your Super Victory III (SV III) it depends on your goal/objective/listening habits. I have used the Coincident Franks MK II mono blocks, Statement Line stage and their Total Eclipse II (TE II) n combination for 13 extremely happy years. This set up has exceeded my lofty expectations when acquired. A key factor is although the SV III is relatively an easy load and moderately high sensitivity (92 db and 8-10 ohm load), my TE II (94 db and 14 ohm load) are even more so. Thus an even better match with lower power SET in general. How large is your listening space, how loud do you typically listen and what genres of music to you listen to most often? These factors will determine the degree of success you may experience. If your preference is large scale classical music at higher volume you may want more than the 8 watt SET provides. For my listening needs (Vast majority acoustic jazz combos, smaller scale classical and some blues) the Franks are remarkably good, actually sublime. They are actually very good with large scale classical at very reasonable listening levels. But if this were my main fare of music I’d have a higher power SET (845, 805,211,GM 70 etc.) or higher power OTL amplifier. So it really just depends on what you are seeking to achieve. My previous amplifier was a very good push pull 100 watt (UL mode) 60 watt (Triode mode). This amp has more ultimate high volume potential (If that matters, non factor for me) more bass weight and punch (Franks are actually very good here but 8 watts is not 100 watts). Bass texture, tactility and nuance with acoustic bass/piano is better with the Franks. In all other sonic parameters I find the Franks superior. More emotion conveyed, inner/micro detail and nuance, tone, timbre and overtones/harmonics a level above. Just a more engaged and compelling listening experience . Unmatched midrange truthfulness of instruments and human vocals in my opinion. Charles |