Feel free to talk me off the ledge


Just picked up my new Rogue RP-1 from a dealer. That coupled with my Rogue Atlas, then to my Klipsch Heresy IV's with an SVS PB2000 pro has me over the moon right now. But funny thing happened at the dealer.. I couldn't help myself, I listened to some other speakers. I'm an idiot, a glutton, a fool. As you can imagine I'm now about a third the way down the rabbit hole. 

At the dealer I was enchanted by a pair of Golden ear BRX monitors, they were so sweet, airy and open. Can't stop thinking about them.

Now I'm looking at:

Paradigm founder 80F

Tyler Time Keepers

The Golden Ear BRX

Vandersteen's among others..

Am I nuts? should I join a support group (other than the other one I'm already in) ?

Feedback always appreciated 

128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xdoyle3433

@kclone 

"Probably what, 75% to 85% of recordings are not "audiophile".  So that leaves us small percentage of stuff that truly sounds out this world on our systems."

 

This is the great (mostly unspoken) problem with high performance audio.

It also explains the often rather strange musical choices of some of our veteran reviewers.

As our equipment gets below a sufficiently low threshold of distortion, the realisation that the music sounds progressively worse becomes an impossible one to ignore.

 

@skyscraper 

"If you’re unmarried, find a wife quickly. She will undoubtedly end your developing addiction in short order once she hears about what this stuff costs."

 

I have an understanding and tolerant wife, but yes there are real world limits.

At least for most of us.

In any case, nowadays she's not the problem

It's actually getting harder and harder to justify buying yet more equipment to myself.

So anything I buy in future needs to be substantially better or more desirable than what I already have.

 

 

I’m with the others that aren’t fans of the Heresy.  I am a fan of the Paradigm Founders the OP mentioned 

Quit with the "best" memtality.......

Everything is different....there is no best.

If you think you hear things better in another set after a good 45 minute audition then run with that.

 

The audition should be a minimum 45 minutes 

Hi OP, something to consider is the sensitivity of new speakers you may like. Your Klipsch are 99dB sensitive which is unusually high. If the new speakers of interest are only 87dB which is typical, then to get the same SPL you would need to double the power into them 4 times!  And you don't have that kind of power.

The above fact may not be mentioned by the seller of the speakers you are smitten by.

Perhaps something to consider too is that a waveguide/horn with compression driver plays differently to a dome tweeter. By comparison a CD on a waveguide/horn produces, by comparison, unlimited dynamics and greatly reduced distortion. I'm sure you've been to a live concert and noticed that the PA speakers are not equipped with dome tweeters, and for a reason.

From what I can make out your CDs use titanium diaphragms which are known to be a little brash. Try and swap them out for aluminium or beryllium and while you're at it consider replacing the series caps in the midrange and tweeter circuits. There is lots of improvement to be gained there.

The 99dB sensitivity is set by the woofer and to achieve that something is sacrificed and that is the bottom octave, therefore a few subs will completely change the overall performance. If this suggestion is not an immediate 'no no' then read up on the multi-sub approach. Also room treatment, essential for any room makes a huge difference. Ignore those who state: "just hang a curtain and add a rug"  That's not treatment, that's decoration.

Good luck and remember Pink Floyd never played through dome tweeters!

 

 

Well, I would like to listen to the BRX, Time Keepers, Amphions among others. I built a system around a lower powered integrated amp in place of my larger more expensive integrated with good results and am looking at possibly replacing the speakers to something smaller, say 12 to 15 inches tall but preferably smaller than the upper limits. I could give up low bass as long as 50 to 200 Hz+ was covered well enough for a fuller, warm sound as well. Could use a sub to fill in 30 to 50 which I have done in the past never really needing to turn the sub up much, so I am not looking for an overbearing low bass for a small apartment.

There’s a great sale on the Elac Carina right now and I think I decided against it because a reviewer pegged them at 82.5 dB anechoic while both my speakers are higher than 88 dB given the 1 watt/2.83 v measurement. So, that would bring me back to higher power again, maybe? I think the little amp could drive them ok but another review site that drove them with both a Hegel h120 and the Keces E40 stated the E40 drove them less well which is understandable given the difference in drive/wattage. But, at what listening level I do not know. I think a few dBs higher before breakup can influence someone’s opinion even if that sound level is rarely ever listened to. Plus, not sure if they lose their presentation at lower sound levels.

Plus, it’s an odd speaker which needs its’ own stand. The AMT tweeter does add a live flavor to voices but in my experience, that may be it as I once had some Martin Logan 15s in my system. Nice voice but otherwise unremarkable and I did think their choice of mid driver is what held them back. I do think, at the higher price that the Elac Carina would be more than a couple of upgrades from that though. It’s the matter of needing enough power and I am trying to use low power, albeit the Keces E40 is a tremendous little performer and I like it over the Rega Brio. But there are limitations. It is smooth though, like my Hegel. Yes, the Hegel is better but at low to moderate sound levels, it is sufficient. So, for me a more expensive amp may be overkill. thinking of selling it. I mean, I have an amp and dac, even if I add a streamer all would weigh in under 25 lbs which I like as I get older and continue to downsize stuff. A choice I made. If I were to buy a larger amp, I really don’t want over 30#s anymore, so no to alot of high end bigger, bulky products. It’s all moderate or low level listening from here on in.

I also like sweet, airy and open with good resolution. I tried the discounted Silver 100s and liked their low to low mids alot but the upper mids and highs were a bit much in I felt they threw everything at you, but someone could prefer that. The small amp drove them well though and would have kept them if I didn’t compare them to my 807Ws. The bottom end doesn’t have the added bloom but the lows are there and tight, but the mids/highs are really nice, nice enough for movies and really nice for music. Mids were different between the two in detail presented but I think the Focal were a bit more relaxed while the Silvers gave it to you all at once? So maybe I liked the quickness of displaying dynamic range of the Focals better. If you want a high energy speaker with great detail and vg resolution, the Silver 100s fit the bill.

I’d like to get essentially what the 807Ws give me in a smaller package which has been a difficult task. The only budget speaker to give me say give 75% of what they do are my Triangle Zetas (much better for music than Borea, IMO) which will be used nearfield/desktop. Nice budget speakers but thinner sounding, especially when compared to the Silver 100s. It was like listening to a ghost image of what they could do with less detail and resolution (Focals were a bit better in resolution, IMO). The Silver 100s are really nice, easy to drive but I thought they were more slanted to home theater IMO, other wise for the price I paid ($675 delivered), I’d have kept them. They just lacked the sweet and airy but were definitely very open and could go beyond the speakers themselves. Maybe I should have kept them...oh well.

The issue with alot of stand mount speakers is they either need alot of power, don’t perform well at low listening levels or still remain too bulky with what I want to achieve, except perhaps the BRXs (87.5dB(B)/2.83V/m but dip below 4 ohms) and a few others. TimeKeepers at that price may need higher power too but I do not really know other than I expect them to outperform the BRXs, by how much I can’t say or whether I could realize each speakers potential on my desired setup, so synergy is important. Sure, I could use Hegel and Focal for mains and Triangle and Keces for desktop. The nice thing about the Triangles as they sound nice with either class D or AB.

In this hobby, were always near or on the edge, which is why it just not frustrating, but also fun. Let’s call it a fruNstrating hobby.