Next best exponential DAC quality level?


I recently did a shoot out of three DACs using my Hint6 + routing each of the other DACs to analog input on the Hint6:

(1) Hint6: ESS Sabre32 -- Integrated 

(2) SMSL M500: ES9038PRO D/A   ~$400 

(3) Khadas ToneBoard(v1): ESS ES9038Q2M - ~$99

I played the same song passages on Amazon Music and was able to cycle through each Hint6 input corresponding to each DAC.

The result?  Very small difference in terms of rendering.  Maybe a more open sound stage with better overall balance using the Hint6 DAC.  The Khadas was more bass / midrange pronounced w/ a more narrow soundstage.  However, I wouldn't suggest that any were head-and-shoulders "better" over the others.  In fact, they were all pretty decent with only small nuances (certainly not worth the price differences.   

I decided to keep the Khadas for my small headphone listening area. 

But it got me thinking - how much would one have to spend to realize an exponential difference in quality?  Is the Khadas that good, or is DAC technology differences more nuanced than I originally thought (meaning, we're paying 10x for only 5% better).  

 

128x128martinman

Thank you for making my argument for me. This is not a dig. It is business for some of us. And you come in and do harm, via your relentless blind spot. I’m not saying I don’t have blind spots, no, not at all. Just not here, in this, is all.

 

If my words cause harm, it is only because they are based on factual information from decades of research by many people.

I have read some very creative interpretations of science in your posts including how you refer to your products. I would hope you would be the first to admit that all the flowery science language is really quite meaningless if you can’t show conclusive evidence that it makes a difference. My words cause no harm. If you are unable to provide conclusive evidence to support whatever claims you make about your product though that could cause you harm.

 

I am continuously amazed by how large a difference we can often measure and yet there are no indications that people detect the change or issue when listening to music. And yet even though that is the case we base our criteria for audibility on what has happened in a lab under controlled conditions with very simple audible stimulus that greatly enhances the ability to detect differences.

the relentlessness and a lack of resolution indicates that your are missing something.

And I've had the kindness to spend hours and hours of my time trying to help you find it.

when I leave and stop doing so, like I've done before... it does not mean you' won', as there is no winning going on here, for anyone.

There is just ...the relentless grinding power of ignorance.

 

additionally, we're dealing with a situation where business is involved, where financial futures are involved, for me, for you, and others who might be listening in.

and you came in, in falsehood, in disguise. With false name and cover.

And attacked relentlessly, with no regard for whom you attack as your Armour is complete and psychopathic.

Psychopathic as it has zero consequence for yourself, no matter the outcome. This much is abundantly obvious.

So, in essence, your entire posting sequence and all therein is utterly selfish and without integrity..

You come to play a game that has costs for others, then you better believe it has to have costs for you.

many people here, in the design world have the answers you seek, not just I. A place where all these things gain clarity and connectivity. On other forums, places like DIYAudio, have the same. People who do have those answers, and are designers of audio. Many more...are not on forums for the reasons of what is happening here.

But you are blind to them. And without integrity.

additionally, we’re dealing with a situation where business is involved, where financial futures are involved, for me, for you, and others who might be listening in.

and you came in, in falsehood, in disguise. With false name and cover.

And attacked relentlessly, with no regard for whom you attack as your Armour is complete and psychopathic.

 

My profile name is my name most of you are just not quick enough to figure it out. There is no obfuscation and certainly nothing dishonest about anything I have posted and I take offense to that.

However who I am makes no difference at all. If my profile name was Mickey mouse it would not change the words that I have written nor their veracity.

You are literally calling me a liar and claiming I am promoting falsehoods and yet I know that if that was true you would not be accusing me of falsehoods you would be proving that what I have written is false. That is what forums are for discussing similar and opposing views not for what you’ve just done.

A key aspect of psychopathy is moral depravity. Who is morally deprived the person who speaks verifiable information or the person who calls them a liar but yet provides no proof that what they’ve said is not true.

I win whether you stay or not. I win because I have integrity. I don’t hide behind misapplications of science and flowery technical language that speaks nothing to how a product behaves for the purposes of audio.

You have written many paragraphs meant only to discredit me. Imagine how effective you could have been if you wrote as many paragraphs related to this topic with verifiable repeatable evidence whether empirical or instrument based. You claim you have the answers and that others do. Well I as well as many others from what I can tell are waiting.

 

It's funny when I read posts that tell others what they should like. For me it sounds like this:

Person1: I like Chocolate ice-cream

Person2: What! You are wrong. You should like Strawberry ice-cream

Person1: But I like the taste of chocolate

Person 2: Your tongue is messed up. You should never like chocolate over Strawberry. We are all humans and we all should like the same flavor. Oh, that "persona; preference", is all a figment of your imagination. Science has measured the human's saliva composition. Based on that we all should like the same flavor - namely strawberry

Person1: But what about my choice

Person2: Science cannot measure that - so it is irrelevant

@milpai,

 

Person 1: I like this chocolate ice cream better than this other ice cream.

Person 2: It is the same ice cream, I just put it in a different bowl. (this argument does not apply to wine where the glass can have a minor difference -- for the pedantic in the crowd)

 

Person 1: I like the taste of this chocolate. It has to be a better chocolate, it costs 10 times as much as the other chocolate.

Person 2: They add ingredient KZW to their chocolate. It slightly masks the chocolate flavour, but gives a hint of saltiness that many people like. They use the same base chocolate as the lower cost chocolate. You like salty foods, so that is probably why you prefer it.

 

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Science also can’t make people not apply bias to what they read, such that they see what they want to see, not a more accurate representation of what was written.

I am not sure there was even 1 comment in this thread that said anyone’s personal preference was wrong, nor that anything was irrelevant, but it also did not accept both easily proven false claims, and irrelevant claims as being relevant either. I don’t think anyone even said in this thread that a well measuring DAC would sound "better". In fact, it was repeated that there was every likelihood that it would not.

Your post in many ways is serendipitous. Bias can be a powerful influence on perception.