Has anyone added a Master Clock to UpTone EtherREGEN Yet? It’s Insane!

@fsmithjack Here is the answer to my question. It is from John Swenson from the Audiophile Style thread https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/59419-master-clock-for-your-etherregen/page/2/:


”The specific reason: the clock input goes into a very low additive phase noise clock synthesizer and all its inputs are designed for square waves.

 

More general reason: all the digital circuits that use clocks actually use squarewaves so feeding a sinewave into the system either doesn't work at all or gives much higher jitter.

 

Technical explanation of the above: All clock receivers have some form of threshold circuit, it changes state when the clock voltage goes through that threshold voltage. NO signals are ever perfect, there is ALWAYS some form of amplitude noise on the signal, AND the receiver itself always has some form of fluctuations on the threshold voltage. So think of the clock signal rising towards the threshold, as it gets nearer to the threshold the amplitude of the noise comes into play, the threshold might get passed when the noise is at its peak or at its lowest point, or some place in between. This noise on the signal causes an uncertainty as to when it will actually get to the threshold, otherwise known as jitter. The faster the voltage rise of the signal the lower the time uncertainty for a given noise amplitude. Thus a square wave with very fast rise and fall times will have much lower jitter than a sinewave which has a much slower changing voltage. This is the reason a circuit designed for square wave input MAY still work with a sinewave, but the jitter in the circuit clocked by the signal will be higher.

 

There ARE some ways to convert sinewaves into square waves, but the simple ways actually increase the noise on the signal making the jitter even worse. There are some ways to do it well but they are complex and expensive and take a lot of power. Putting one of those on the clock input of the EtherREGEN would have at least doubled the cost of the device, not worth it in my opinion.

 

BTW these master clocks provide both sinewave and squarewave outputs for different applications. Radio systems that need a very stable frequency reference for running into mixers etc want a sinewave. Digital systems want a square wave. Either system CAN use the other type, but won't work nearly as well. So it is best to get the type of master clock that works well with what you want to use it for.

 I hope that makes some sense.

 John S.”

Im very interested in this subject, as I only stream music (Qobuz), and am looking to begin optimizing the digital signal chain.

But I'm having difficulty conceiving of improvements being so drastic, because the improvements as described appear to exceed the capabilities of playing an equivalent CD. Am I wrong in assuming that streamed content could never exceed CD (or locally stored content)?

It absolutely pulverizes any CD player. My system as it is - you can add a CD Player, any CD Player at any cost and it will crush it. If you live local come over my house and you can listen. If you are worried don’t be there is a 30 trial period and a 2 year warranty. 

What it does is this. 
It makes streaming audio sound much better. 
Much better then it did before, much better then CD. 
I mean my streamer was better then CD even before EtherREGEN or master clock. 

Once you get yourself a nice, proper streamer from the likes of (Antipodes, Lumin, Auralic, Aurender, Bricasti, SGC, Innuos, Naim, SOtM) and there are others things start to pop and CD players start to fade. Now start developing your system as a whole and your network with really good, upgraded Ethernet and CD cabling, linear power supplies to replace every single SMPS for everything. Routers, WIFI, Switches, etc. and you them you finer optic devices and and EtherREGENs and Master Clocks and you have left CD players in the dust heap is history. 

Thanks 

pjb255livecom"I only stream music (Qobuz), and am looking to begin optimizing the digital signal chain.But I'm having difficulty conceiving of improvements being so drastic, because the improvements as described appear to exceed the capabilities of playing an equivalent CD. Am I wrong?"


You could just listen and then you would know for yourself

I agree adding a clock to the ER has a very positive effect.  I also found placing the ER closest to an Innuos Statement the best place.  I moved my EE 8Switch from that position after adding the clock and it was obvious the ER was best closest to the Statement.

I have an ENO Ag filter between the ER and Statement and it is amazing.
I am using a Mutec Ref10 for both an ER and a SOtM switch that sits between the ER and 8Switch.

Funny thing happened after adding the Mutec.  I had the Roon core on an Antipodes Core off the SOtM switch, but after adding the Mutec going back to Experimental mode on the Statement was better than separating the core and player and also better than Experimental mode without the Mutec.  I dont understand that.

All this has made a huge and I mean huge improvement streaming Tidal or Qobuz, however CD's ripped to the Statement always sounds better than streamed from Tidal or Qobuz in my system.  Playing downloaded Hi-Rez and especially DSD makes for a bigger delta.

I am waiting for Innuos2.0 to move on from Roon, maybe Tidal and Qobuz will improve then, but I will have to hear it to believe it that streaming sounds better.